The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Victorian Squid** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:52 pm

SilverPhoenix wrote:
Here's the thing, someone did try to develop Johnny.

But since that develop took place in the 90's, it was automatically deemed shit and thrown away.

I wasn't a comics reader in the '90s, who or what?

All I know about the '90s FF is Sue had a hot navel piercing.

by **BlueStreak** » Wed Jan 26, 2011 11:54 pm

Anyways, just read it and wished I would have left it in the stupid death bag. This inspires no confidence to read the rest of this run.

I bought an extra copy to go into the permanent collection and another one just in case someone here needed a copy. I'll need reimbursed because I'm giving away two trades this week, but there's a copy out if someone wants to read the "Issue Better Left in a Death Bag".

by **Amoebas** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:54 am

BlueStreak wrote:Anyways, just read it and wished I would have left it in the stupid death bag. This inspires no confidence to read the rest of this run.

I bought an extra copy to go into the permanent collection and another one just in case someone here needed a copy. I'll need reimbursed because I'm giving away two trades this week, but there's a copy out if someone wants to read the "Issue Better Left in a Death Bag".

I had no plans to read this but then you guilt-tripped-forced me too for the Review Group.

Welcome to my pain. :-D

by **Eli Katz** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:16 am

Here's my main problem with FANTASTIC FOUR #587: the death is boring and cliched. Johnny sacrifices himself to save everyone else. I know, I know, this is what heroes are supposed to do. But I have seen this type of heroic death depicted so many times, in so many different ways, that I just cannot muster an emotional response to yet another sacrificial hero story. Remember the cheesy finale in Armageddon, where Bruce Willis kills himself to blow up the asteroid and save the day? Or do you remember when Leonardo Dicaprio sacrifices himself at the end of Titanic to save his true love? Or do you remember when Arnold destroys himself at the end of Terminator 2 to ensure that the deadly robot technology is eliminated from the world? Or do you remember … well, you get the point. Johnny pushing Ben through the portal at the last second and placing himself in harm’s way is so utterly predictable. And disappointing. And cheesy.

Death is overdone in comics. So if death is going to be used to boost publicity and sales, I wish the deaths would at least be unusual. The death of Johnny Storm is just a cheap stunt, with no emotional complexity.

STORY: 1
ART: 8
OVERALL: 4.5

by **john lewis hawk** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 2:53 am

Eli Katz wrote:Here's my main problem with FANTASTIC FOUR #587: the death is boring and cliched. Johnny sacrifices himself to save everyone else. I know, I know, this is what heroes are supposed to do. But I have seen this type of heroic death depicted so many times, in so many different ways, that I just cannot muster an emotional response to yet another sacrificial hero story. Remember the cheesy finale in Armageddon, where Bruce Willis kills himself to blow up the asteroid and save the day? Or do you remember when Leonardo Dicaprio sacrifices himself at the end of Titanic to save his true love? Or do you remember when Arnold destroys himself at the end of Terminator 2 to ensure that the deadly robot technology is eliminated from the world? Or do you remember … well, you get the point. Johnny pushing Ben through the portal at the last second and placing himself in harm’s way is so utterly predictable. And disappointing. And cheesy.

Death is overdone in comics. So if death is going to be used to boost publicity and sales, I wish the deaths would at least be unusual. The death of Johnny Storm is just a cheap stunt, with no emotional complexity.

STORY: 1
ART: 8
OVERALL: 4.5

Eli believes that the Human Torch should've died from auto-erotic axphyiation.... Hell, I'm loving that idea!

by **Eli Katz** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:14 am

john lewis hawk wrote:Eli believes that the Human Torch should've died from auto-erotic axphyiation.... Hell, I'm loving that idea!

Yes, and to make it creepier, he uses one of Reed's stretchy limbs to accidentally hang himself.

by **doombug** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 3:46 am

This is going to be my worst review ever but:

Hickman I really enjoyed the start of your run, I enjoy the entirety of your supporting cast and some of your crazy ideas. I love Secret Warriors as well but this? I'm starting to think this was editorially mandated. We see at least 2 of Reed's herbie like Doombots running around during the huge battle and it occurs to none of the brain trust to use a herbie bot instead of an actual human being? Or even having Johnny go supernova with Ben and the kids out of danger?

I mean I get it, shock is shock. But the way this is read, it just feels forced. Johnny may be brash at moments but the 20 something Storm is not a complete idiot. It's just....I expect better from Hickman.

The art was the weakest I've seen in a while from Epting, I was disappointed by it.

Over all: You get a 4 FF, for Marvel's supposed want to be flagship book again, you failed.

by **Zero** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:26 am

SilverPhoenix wrote:
Here's the thing, someone did try to develop Johnny.

But since that develop took place in the 90's, it was automatically deemed shit and thrown away.

Mark Waid did Johnny really well, I think we was actually the best character in that run.

by **doombug** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:57 am

Mark Waid gave Johnny purpose. The one to ignore that the most? Mark Millar.

by **Zero** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:09 am

I'm surprised anyone expected Millar's FF to be readable, even Millar didn't give a shit by the time someone else finished it for him.

by **Mammon, Fool Breaker** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:43 am

Cover- Does the cover art contain Galactus??? Barely. The problem with this cover is, the fantastic four is on it... If it only had Galactus it would have scored higher. (6/10)

Story- Jumped into the middle/end of this story arc and i've never read any other fantastic four issues before. sooooo, I was completly lost the whole time. Reed is saving a giant brain from Galactus <--- why isn't he is this issue more? Sue is off punching 2nd string marval Aquaman <---- why isn't Aquaman in this issue more? Johnny and Ben are reenacting Armageddon together spmeplace. Johnny's death is lame and is WAY too much like Bruce Willis's death in the above mentioned film with bugs taking the place of a nuke. He dosn't take a single bug with him... (3/10)

Art- There is a lot of talking in this issue, but nobody ever opens their mouth. This drove me crazy! Is this normal for Marvel comics? or the Fantastic Four in general? (3/10)

Overall- I feel really let down by this, I was expecting a pretty awesome death for the Human Torch. This issue just did not deliver. (4/10)

Final Score (4/10)

by **BlueStreak** » Thu Jan 27, 2011 9:44 am

Mammon, Fool Breaker wrote:Cover- Does the cover art contain Galactus??? Barely. The problem with this cover is, the fantastic four is on it... If it only had Galactus it would have scored higher. (6/10)

Story- Jumped into the middle/end of this story arc and i've never read any other fantastic four issues before. sooooo, I was completly lost the whole time. Reed is saving a giant brain from Galactus <--- why isn't he is this issue more? Sue is off punching 2nd string marval Aquaman <---- why isn't Aquaman in this issue more? Johnny and Ben are reenacting Armageddon together spmeplace. Johnny's death is lame and is WAY too much like Bruce Willis's death in the above mentioned film with bugs taking the place of a nuke. He dosn't take a single bug with him... (3/10)

Art- There is a lot of talking in this issue, but nobody ever opens their mouth. This drove me crazy! Is this normal for Marvel comics? or the Fantastic Four in general? (3/10)

Overall- I feel really let down by this, I was expecting a pretty awesome death for the Human Torch. This issue just did not deliver. (4/10)

Final Score (4/10)