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Review Group Week 183 - ULTIMATE COMICS AVENGERS #1

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Punchy
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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:49 pm

thefourthman wrote:talk about being biased. Punchy hasn't even read the book yet and is comparing it to Planetary and Miracle Man! :twisted:


To specific issues, not in quality, I can also compare it to the brilliance of Rulk.

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Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:51 pm

Punchy wrote:So you'd prefer what? A bunch of chatter about the events of Ultimatum? As someone who read Ultimatum, I'd prefer they move on.

And I can't believe you're really comparing this to Transformers 2.


When you call it Ultimatum, when you hype it madly as a huge universe-changing event and relaunch point, you can't just sweep it under the rug. Especially when Marvel was silly enough to let Loeb do it and half the readers of Ultimates 1 & 2 didn't follow it.

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Postby Chris » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:53 pm

Punchy wrote:Where the first 2 pages not acknowledgement enough? It was crap, now move on.

You're a glutton for continuity punishment.

And I don't know, but I just think you're criticisms, even in general are off, there's nothing wrong with a big fight-scene, in any book.


If this was even a mediocre fight scene, I would accept that, maybe..

It's not.

It's an entire issue of Cap/Hawkeye fighting AIM lackeys that are even lamer than their 616 counterparts!

And to boot, there's no substance to it. It's just a fight scene for the sake of having a fight scene. Something to fill space until the Red Skull reveal.

It's a quick and easy plot device to get from Point A to Point B which probably took Millar ten minutes to write.

And moreover, you have no room to partake in this discussion until you've read the book!
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Postby thefourthman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:54 pm

Punchy wrote:Where the first 2 pages not acknowledgement enough? It was crap, now move on.

You're a glutton for continuity punishment.

And I don't know, but I just think you're criticisms, even in general are off, there's nothing wrong with a big fight-scene, in any book.

I didn't ever say there is any thing wrong with a fight scene. I just want more, otherwise we will end up with 90's Image books again, do you really want that?

We were told that Ultimatum had to happen to revitalize the Ultimate Universe. Funny that, since thus far we just get books that barely acknowledge it.

It's like Spidey, I hated OMD, but have enjoyed the heck out of BND and part of the reason is watching all that Mephisto do fall apart. So OMD sucked to read, but created great stories. And was acknowledged immediately.

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:54 pm

House of J wrote:I know the book you refer to, I just want to clarify I'm not the one who got you in trouble!

no, this was back in nurama days and I am the only person who can be blamed.

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:55 pm

Punchy wrote:To specific issues, not in quality, I can also compare it to the brilliance of Rulk.

but when I compare it to Transformers to make a point, I am being off my rocker? :?

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:56 pm

thefourthman wrote:I didn't ever say there is any thing wrong with a fight scene. I just want more, otherwise we will end up with 90's Image books again, do you really want that?

We were told that Ultimatum had to happen to revitalize the Ultimate Universe. Funny that, since thus far we just get books that barely acknowledge it.

It's like Spidey, I hated OMD, but have enjoyed the heck out of BND and part of the reason is watching all that Mephisto do fall apart. So OMD sucked to read, but created great stories. And was acknowledged immediately.


OMD was acknowledged immediately? They didn't reference any of the changes until New Ways To Die!

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:56 pm

thefourthman wrote:but when I compare it to Transformers to make a point, I am being off my rocker? :?


Rulk is a good book.

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Postby Chris » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:58 pm

Punchy wrote:Rulk is a good book.


This makes any and all arguments you make from this point forward moot.

You have lost all crediblity and have joined the likes of chap22 with this statement.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 pm

Chris wrote:This makes any and all arguments you make from this point forward moot.

You have lost all crediblity and have joined the likes of chap22 with this statement.

:D


Have you been reading it? You've probably just been reading spoilers online which appears to be your preferred way to read comics. :P

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 pm

Punchy wrote:OMD was acknowledged immediately? They didn't reference any of the changes until New Ways To Die!

dude there was a big spread explaining the whole mess. Harry came back immediately, the identity stuff was immediate... resolution is another story.

Here we get New York was flooded but no evidence of it. Nick's out of job, but no explanation as to why... not only is there a lack of resolution (what you are talking about), the references that are in place seem to be more of the "the editor told me I had to mention Ultimatum" type.

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Postby Punchy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:01 pm

thefourthman wrote:dude there was a big spread explaining the whole mess. Harry came back immediately, the identity stuff was immediate... resolution is another story.

Here we get New York was flooded but no evidence of it. Nick's out of job, but no explanation as to why... not only is there a lack of resolution (what you are talking about), the references that are in place seem to be more of the "the editor told me I had to mention Ultimatum" type.


Maybe just read Ultimatum then.

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:02 pm

Punchy wrote:Rulk is a good book.

I'm not making a point about Rulk, I am making a point about the level of story telling in this ONE SINGLE ISSUE. There is none.
Hawkeye and Fury gab, flashback - Cap and Hawkeye beat up some toddlers in AIM costumes over a completely intact NY, Red Skull whispers something to Cap. Cap and Hawkeye go skydiving out of helicopters, Cap says "Red Skull is my Son". - to be continued. They didn't need 32 pages to tell that story, they didn't even need 32 panels. hell it doesn't take much more than 32 words until you say oh yeah, Danvers in Charge, Tony Drunk, playing chess.

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Postby thefourthman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:06 pm

Punchy wrote:Maybe just read Ultimatum then.

Dude I did and I want Marvel to tell me why I had to. There is no conceivable reason at this stage for that shit fest to have happened. It could have been a tie-in book to end UXM and UFF and could have left USM and Ultimates alone, but it didn't. So tell me why, Marvel, tell me why. They did with Spidey, they aren't here.

I would have been much happier with the issue, if it had had a recap page with a panel from Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum and said "Yeah, that shit. NEVER HAPPENED!" But I still wouldn't be giving it a nine or a ten, because it quite simply does not deserve it. A 9 or a ten is a special book that not only gets my dick hard from action but makes me think as well.

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Postby ****** » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:06 pm

thefourthman wrote:Here we get New York was flooded but no evidence of it.


So rebuilding the Triskellion (sp?) was a figment of my imagination then?

Nick's out of job, but no explanation as to why...


Other than that he's no longer in charge of SHIELD, how are Fury's actions in Ultimate Power relevant to this issue?

not only is there a lack of resolution (what you are talking about), the references that are in place seem to be more of the "the editor told me I had to mention Ultimatum" type.


If you want to know what happened in Ultimatum, read Ultimatum. This is the story after Ultimatum. Millar acknowledged that it happened without dwelling on it, anything more would have been overkill.

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