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Review Group Week 183 - ULTIMATE COMICS AVENGERS #1

Discuss the latest comic book news and front page articles, read or post your own reviews of comics, and talk about anything comic book related. Threads from the two subforums below will also show up here. News Stand topics can also be read and posted in from The Asylum.

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Postby doombug » Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:24 am

starlord wrote:*sigh*

I'll never understand that kind of fanatical loyalty to a book or a person, but again, I try to respect it in others (though I do tend to rib people about it more often - good naturedly of course). but really, Chris and I seem to be the only ones who gave it a low score.

On the other hand, he does have youth on his side, and I'm a sucker for a 20 something year old. ;-)


:oops:

Your a daredevil fan right? You sad about this being bru's last issue?

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Postby Punchy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 6:44 am

starlord wrote:First let me say in all sincerity, I really like you Punch. You're a cool guy and though I disagree with many of your tastes in comics, I respect them, as I do everyones.

Perhaps if you had started your response to my review with I think you are wrong or I have to disagree with you, that would be one thing, but the second you proclaim my thoughts to be bullshit, you have offended me.

bottom line is I didn't care for it. Not because it was Millar, but because I find it adequate at best. I actually gave it a higher score and was nicer than I wanted to be out of respect for those who really like the Ultimate Avengers (yourself included). As for Doom Patrol, there are very few writers I enjoy more than Giffen, but I was not biased when I stated that his first issue of that series was sucky at best.

And I am NOT biased against Millar OR Marvel. In fact, as I'm preparing for my end of the year top five I will tell you that unless something horrendous happens from Marvel, they have been at the top of their game this year. Much better than DC.

If anything, I think perhaps your love for Millar and the Ultimate line has made you a bit biased and perhaps way too defensive.

However, if you are right and I just randomly decided to hate it, then perhaps I don't belong in this fun little group. That'll save me money on a weekly basis.

Seriously Punch, this has really offended me just a little. I thought better of you as a fellow comic geek and an E-friend.


I'm sorry if you feel insulted, it wasn't my intention, my problem isn't with your review, it's with your score, I just don't see how what you wrote, which was a middle of the road, sort of positive opinion translates into a 3/10.

I think it's mainly because it's my pick and I want it to have a good average, I was like this with my last week, Ghost Rider #34, and was very annoyed when a certain someone torpedoed the average of 9/10!

And I don't particularly think you are biased, but the fact that you jokingly posted a 0.5/10 review before your actual review, and have moaned about having to pick up a Millar book led me to believe you were using a low number on purpose even if your actual review implied a 5 or 6/10.

Maybe I'm biased too, but if I have to admit, then so do you :wink:

The bottom line is, don't leave the RG, I am just het up because it's my pick and I want it to do well, and I also really enjoyed this book, and it's kind of a buzz-kill to see it bashed. Can you imagine the shit I'd have taken if I came in and gave Blackest Night #1 as 2/10? You and many others who gave it 9 and 10/10 would have been aghast.

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Postby MrBlack » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:24 am

Now I'm inclined to give the book a bad review just to annoy Punchy. ;-)

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Postby MrBlack » Mon Aug 17, 2009 7:32 am

Ultimate Comics: Avengers #1

After the massive misstep that was Ultimates 3, Mark Millar immediately gets things back on track with his first issue of Ultimate Comics: Avengers. We get a few pages of exposition to set up the current status quo (and re-establish Ultimate Nick Fury as the man) and then we're into the action.

Millar really knows how to set up action scenes, and we get a great one here with Cap and Hawkeye. After tossing several A.I.M. lackeys out of a helicopter, Cap takes on the big bad of this issue, the Red Skull, who very quickly takes him apart. The relationship between Cap and the Skull is intriguing, and the last page tease was more than enough to suck me into this run.

While I do miss Bryan Hitch a bit, Carlos Pacheco did a great job on this issue. Some of the action scenes did not seem quite as "widescreen" (for lack of a better term) as I would expect from the Ultimates/Ultimate Avengers, but all the characters look fantastic, and the new Red Skull is quite imposing.

Overall, I really enjoyed this book, even if it was a little thin on story. I am really looking forward to the rest of the series.

Story: 8
Art: 8.5
Overall: 8.5

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Postby Starlord » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:04 am

Punchy wrote:I'm sorry if you feel insulted, it wasn't my intention, my problem isn't with your review, it's with your score, I just don't see how what you wrote, which was a middle of the road, sort of positive opinion translates into a 3/10.

I think it's mainly because it's my pick and I want it to have a good average, I was like this with my last week, Ghost Rider #34, and was very annoyed when a certain someone torpedoed the average of 9/10!

And I don't particularly think you are biased, but the fact that you jokingly posted a 0.5/10 review before your actual review, and have moaned about having to pick up a Millar book led me to believe you were using a low number on purpose even if your actual review implied a 5 or 6/10.

Maybe I'm biased too, but if I have to admit, then so do you :wink:

The bottom line is, don't leave the RG, I am just het up because it's my pick and I want it to do well, and I also really enjoyed this book, and it's kind of a buzz-kill to see it bashed. Can you imagine the shit I'd have taken if I came in and gave Blackest Night #1 as 2/10? You and many others who gave it 9 and 10/10 would have been aghast.


I reread the issue again before I went to bed and the initial score of a 3 did seem low for something that I didn't dislike. My ultimate score, though, seems about right for me.

And I do apologize that my original joke fell flat, especially with a lukewarm review that followed. I admire your passion and loyalty to what you choose.

And for the record, my friend, any shit I ever give you is all with toungue and cheek. What you like and or dislike in life is yours and yours alone, and I will always respect that (but may tease you horribly about it).

Bottom line, you are one of my favorite posters here and when we were at the Rama. Your fun to chat with and discuss comics with. Your youth gives you a view that my old eyes and mind don't necessarily see anymore. I like that. So I apologize for getting riled up.

You're a really good guy, Punchy. Let's just hug. :smt112 ;-)
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Postby thefourthman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:12 am

I think Starlord is just horny.

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Postby Punchy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:54 am

Ultimate Comics Avengers #1 - 'The Next Generation Part One of Six' - Millar, Pacheco and Miki

Story - I must admit, this review may be a little biased. Mark Millar and Bryan Hitch's work on Ultimates 1 and 2 is one of my favourite comics runs ever, it has everything I like, complex characterisation, big action, moments of humour and beautiful art, and to me, this sequel (minus Hitch, but with the great Carlos Pacheco) is more of the same, and it's good to have it back. Jeph Loeb may have fucked up the Ultimates and then the whole Ultimate Universe, but Mark Millar is back to save us.

He kicks the issue off in grand style, Nick Fury exclaiming 'What the Fuck?, I disappear for 10 minutes and the whole place goes to hell!', this is more than just the character expressing shock at the events of Ultimatum, this is Millar himself, commenting on what's gone on since he left, how Loeb messed with it. And mess with it Loeb has, the whole of NY is flooded, you can see the water everywhere, Hank, Jan and Thor are dead, and Tony Stark is even more messed up than usual. I can't see how anyone can complain that this issue didn't acknowledge Ultimatum, or, as Tony puts it, in his usual glib style 'The Wolverine thing'.

The impact of Ultimatum leaves us with only 2 Ultimates available to deal with an AIM robbery of the Baxter building, and the majority of the issue is Cap and Hawkeye fighting these Science Terrorists in the skies above Chicago. And what a fight! This thing is beautifully choreographed, it's all in the air, and there are panels of our heroes leaping through the sky that are genuinely jaw-dropping, it's almost balletic, but with explosions. This is a continuation of the wide-screen style Millar used in Ultimates, and it adds a sense of awe that many superhero fights lack, and for a series that purports to exist in a more realistic world, this is an important touch. It was just fun to watch this fight play out really, that's all I can say, it was cool.

Millar also has our heroes engage in some choice witty action movie banter, but this isn't just shallow, or empty fighting like Michael Bay movie. This is what Millar does in the Ultimates, the first issue of both volumes there were mainly action sequences too, Millar is treating the first issue like the pre-credits scene of a James Bond film, get us hooked with some eye-popping action, and set the tone for what is to come. Or perhaps that should be who is to come, and that who is the Red Skull! Attacking Captain America and defeating him easily, this Ultimate version of the classic villain is one tough cookie, and he has a twist, after Hawkeye enacts a daring aerial rescue (that was awesome, so cool), we learn that the Skull is in fact Captain America's son! Now I've known about this for a while, Millar was talking it up at a convention I attended way back in November, but still, it's a ballsy move, and I can't wait to see where this goes, and how it works.

This issue is not perfect, perhaps the fact that it is pretty much all an extended fight scene makes it seem slight and empty, and I felt a bit of that, I am used to reading The Ultimates in the hardcover format, all 13 issues at once, and not in monthly (or whenever it comes out) chunks, but I feel that this action sequence was good enough, and the final page hook interesting enough, that it makes up for it, looking back at the first issues of the previous volumes, they may have seemed in consequential at the time, but they were important in setting up the rest of the plot (the device AIM stole is described as Reed Richards' masterpiece, I'm sure it will be important) and also the feel of the book; this was an exercise in style, a statement of intent. Millar is back, and he's as good as ever, future issues promise more characters, in particular new characters, but this issue re-establishes Millar's take on this team, after the way too frenetic pace of Ultimates 3, where so many random events were happening you didn't know what to do, Millar slows us down and gives us a great action sequence. If you like what Millar did before, this is more of the same, and it's great.

Art - I've been a Pacheco fan for a while, his work on Avengers Forever, and also his creator-owned Fantasy War Story (with Kurt Busiek) Arrowsmith are my favourites, and it's been frustrating seeing DC use him so little during his exclusive, he did 5 issues of Green Lantern, and then his Superman run came out in fits and spurts, and was over-shadowed by Johns and Kubert, and then he was a fill-in monkey on Final Crisis. It's good to see him back on something higher-profile. I think he may have adjusted his style a little, make it a bit more Hitchian, but that's not a problem. As I mentioned, his choreography of the fight scene was fantastic, it flowed so well, and I loved his redesign of the Red Skull. Top stuff, can't wait to see how he handles the rest of the characters, and how his fight-scene chops hold up when there's more than 2 characters.

Best Line - So many to choose from! I think it's either 'What kind of Girl gets stopped by a bomb?' or 'I believe you mean awesome', or even 'Ruthless oppurtunists'

8/10, It may not be the best thing ever like I thought it might, because of the book being mainly a fight, but it was a great fight, and I trust in Millar to build on it. The fact that I've known the Red Skull's identity for 8 months also knocks it down, if it was a total surprise, this would be a 9.
Last edited by Punchy on Mon Aug 17, 2009 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby thefourthman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:57 am

I feel let down that Punchy didn't give it a 12. :?

By the way, nice review, even if you did let outside influences in to it... :lol:

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Postby Punchy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:03 pm

thefourthman wrote:I feel let down that Punchy didn't give it a 12. :?

By the way, nice review, even if you did let outside influences in to it... :lol:


What, Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum? You were the one who wanted the comic to mention them more!

I never had a problem with bringing in outside influences, I just felt that you were focusing on them too much, at the expense of looking at the actual comic, rants on Marketing and the like.

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Postby thefourthman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:05 pm

Punchy wrote:What, Ultimates 3 and Ultimatum? You were the one who wanted the comic to mention them more!

I never had a problem with bringing in outside influences, I just felt that you were focusing on them too much, at the expense of looking at the actual comic, rants on Marketing and the like.

yeah, whatever... your review is clearly influenced by the discussion this week, which is why I avoid reading reviews until after I have written my review, much less read the book.

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Postby Punchy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:09 pm

thefourthman wrote:yeah, whatever... your review is clearly influenced by the discussion this week, which is why I avoid reading reviews until after I have written my review, much less read the book.


Oh yeah, maybe it is, but it wasn't overly related to it. I like to see what others have made of a book and then see if I match up to it, that's the fun of the group. We're not writing professionally like you.

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Postby thefourthman » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:22 pm

Punchy wrote:Oh yeah, maybe it is, but it wasn't overly related to it. I like to see what others have made of a book and then see if I match up to it, that's the fun of the group. We're not writing professionally like you.

I know, and I love that aspect as well, but I like my review to be clean.

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Postby Punchy » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:37 pm

thefourthman wrote:I know, and I love that aspect as well, but I like my review to be clean.


Yours has to be though, because you are also writing for an audience who hasn't been following the thread and seen the conversations.

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Postby Chris » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:45 pm

thefourthman wrote:I know, and I love that aspect as well, but I like my review to be clean.


I like mine to be dirty.
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Postby Old Man » Mon Aug 17, 2009 12:55 pm

starlord wrote:And I am NOT biased against Millar OR Marvel. In fact, as I'm preparing for my end of the year top five I will tell you that unless something horrendous happens from Marvel, they have been at the top of their game this year. Much better than DC.


That's bulltish. ;-)

(To all you others out there, I'm just yanking his chain. Don't get pissy with me, bitches.)

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