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Review: Infinity #1

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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Grayson » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:06 pm

If Jude sees the truth, then I don't see why it's so hard for everybody else. :smt102
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Chris » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:38 pm

Their actions should have consequences, I agree, Jude. That does not change my opinion of them. Not everything is black and white.

I have yet to hear a reasonable solution other than what they're doing, by the way. I keep hearing "they should ask for help!"

Ask who? Who is equipped to deal with this? This is a no-win situation. And that's how it was written to be. Asking for help doesn't change that. Their only option is to protect their own universe/Earth at the moment, until they figure out a way to stop these incursions.

But that's what makes it an interesting story. And it's what I liked about MoS as well. I'm kind of bored of the formulaic hero/villain stories that you seem to be pining for, Jude. Taking heroes and putting them in situations where they may have to go against their principles for the greater good. It's interesting writing. And when it's brought up in the book itself that what they're doing is wrong, I don't really see the issue. All of your complaints have been brought up in the actual book, Jude. It's part of the story. Let the story grow. :smt102
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Grayson » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:40 pm

Forgive Scott Summers, he is a hero!
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:47 pm

Chris wrote:Their actions should have consequences, I agree, Jude. That does not change my opinion of them. Not everything is black and white.

I have yet to hear a reasonable solution other than what they're doing, by the way. I keep hearing "they should ask for help!"

Ask who? Who is equipped to deal with this? This is a no-win situation. And that's how it was written to be. Asking for help doesn't change that. Their only option is to protect their own universe/Earth at the moment, until they figure out a way to stop these incursions.

But that's what makes it an interesting story. And it's what I liked about MoS as well. I'm kind of bored of the formulaic hero/villain stories that you seem to be pining for, Jude. Taking heroes and putting them in situations where they may have to go against their principles for the greater good. It's interesting writing. And when it's brought up in the book itself that what they're doing is wrong, I don't really see the issue. All of your complaints have been brought up in the actual book, Jude. It's part of the story. Let the story grow. :smt102


My problem is that thus far, there are no consequences for their actions (or the consequences consist of a vague instant of uneasiness between characters before the next super-mega-event comes along to change everything up again). The Avengers were complete dicks in AvX yet they were not only the victors, but treated by readers as the heroes, when I think it was clear that wasn't the case at all. Here again, we see them being dicks, and readers defending them. Will they turn out to have been "right?" I think the only way this ends satisfactorily is they turn out to have been very, very wrong.

It's fiction, there is always a better way. If not, why bother reading it? You could just experience real life if all you want is for comics to be as realistic as possible. Nothing is more realistic than real life. Superhero comics have guys who can fly and shoot lasers out of their eyes. It stands to reason they can be extraordinary in character too.

I don't mind the occasional grim and gritty, tough-decision-making hero. But the place of a character like that is to be begrudgingly respected but also somewhat despised, like Wolverine used to be. Now Wolverine is the headmaster of a school, everyone's best friend, and the moral center of the Marvel Universe who can travel back in time, kill a founding Avenger, and everyone is just like "That's so Wolverine!"

What makes a character like that interesting is that they go against the grain and do things their way, regardless of the consequences, but there ARE consequences. When the Avengers, the top heroes in the world, are grim and gritty, Earth-killing heroes, then there's no redeeming quality to the story, IMO.

The current Marvel Avengers comic universe is like saying "What if Mark Millar wrote Watchmen and the whole point of the comic was that The Comedian was always right?"
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:48 pm

But, as I said, maybe Hickman is leading these characters to a fall from grace, and, if so, like I also said, then I will call it a satisfactory conclusion to the events of the last ten years.
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Chris » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:49 pm

I think superhero comics are outgrowing you. :smt102
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Chris » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:50 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:But, as I said, maybe Hickman is leading these characters to a fall from grace, and, if so, like I also said, then I will call it a satisfactory conclusion to the events of the last ten years.


He might be, or he might now. I don't know. But with Hickman it's usually fair to give him time to expand the story, because how you feel about it right now might be wildly different from when it's over. He is one of the most longform-oriented writers around anymore.
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:51 pm

Chris wrote:I think superhero comics are outgrowing you. :smt102


By reverting to 1990s Rob Liefeld Xtreme sensibilities?
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:52 pm

Chris wrote:
He might be, or he might now. I don't know. But with Hickman it's usually fair to give him time to expand the story, because how you feel about it right now might be wildly different from when it's over. He is one of the most longform-oriented writers around anymore.


And I said, "maybe that's where he's going." Right now, I'm commenting on where I think the previous writers have put these characters, which is in a place where I can't really root for them.

Love Bendis's X-Men though.
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Arion » Sun Aug 18, 2013 4:58 pm

Grayson wrote:Forgive Scott Summers, he is a hero!


But he killed Professor X !

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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Chris » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:02 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:
By reverting to 1990s Rob Liefeld Xtreme sensibilities?


I don't see that at all. It's also not the cookie cutter formulaic Silver Age nonsense you seem to want where everyone magically saves the day, and that's fine by me.

We want different things from our comics. But the popularity of books and events such as this leads me to think things aren't changing anytime soon. This is what people want to read. :smt102

I imagine when comics started getting more complex and darker themes were being explored in the 70's and 80's all those people who grew up with Stan, Jack, Ditko, Simon, Siegel, Schuster, etc. were probably saying the same exact things you were.
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Grayson » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:14 pm

I think that there may be a level of miscommunication going on here. I actually really enjoy the current New Avengers series and I enjoyed the first issue of Infinity. You got more for your money out of the first issue of Infinity than you did out of the first 4-5 issues of Age of Ultron.

I'll even go one step further and say that I really enjoy the fact that New Avengers is exposing the Illuminati for their hypocrisy. My problem, like Jude's, is the fact that the Illuminati gets to do whatever they want because they feel that they have the right to do it and get away with it. We know that this is far from the first time they have done something like this and if they aren't exposed it won't be the last. While all of this is going on, a man who has been a hero his entire life is being hated and hunted because of a decision that he made under the impression that he was also correct. I am greatly intrigued by both stories but I want the Illuminati's actions to be revealed to the general public (in the Marvel Universe) and I want to see how the writer's react to this revelation. Will they be deservedly treated as harshly as Scott Summers or will they realize that they have been unfair to him?
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Grayson » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:16 pm

Arion wrote:But he killed Professor X !


:smt011

False! The Phoenix killed Professor X while it possessed Scott's body.
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:24 pm

Chris wrote:
I don't see that at all. It's also not the cookie cutter formulaic Silver Age nonsense you seem to want where everyone magically saves the day, and that's fine by me.

We want different things from our comics. But the popularity of books and events such as this leads me to think things aren't changing anytime soon. This is what people want to read. :smt102

I imagine when comics started getting more complex and darker themes were being explored in the 70's and 80's all those people who grew up with Stan, Jack, Ditko, Simon, Siegel, Schuster, etc. were probably saying the same exact things you were.


I am okay with these themes being explored if the end result is that the behavior of the Avengers is exposed as being wrong. What's troubling is that their actions have been portrayed as, in my opinion, borderline fascist, and fans cheer it on. In some cases, the writers seem to cheer it on, even while writing what to me is obviously villainous behavior.
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Re: Review: Infinity #1

Postby Chris » Sun Aug 18, 2013 5:31 pm

When you throw around the words "villains" and "fascist" in regards to the Avengers, I can't help but not take you seriously. I'm sorry. :D
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