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syxxpakk

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:35 pm

draco x wrote:
All gimmicks are designed to make lots of money but it doesn't mean change the fact that it at the end of the day is still nothing more than a gimmick-and a poorly thought out one at that.


Well, I don't know what that has to do with anything, but you said that the reboot had no purpose and that was my response. I'd also say it was done with the purpose of reinvigorating the line.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:39 pm

syxxpakk wrote:
But what about the flip side of that, Zechs? What if I thought Spoiler and Cassandra Cain were stupid characters and am glad they're gone? What if I prefer Teen Titans now? What if Slobby on Superman is everything I ever wanted and I think he's made the character much better?



That's my preference of comic book characters, not yours though. If you wish too, then I'd say there were a hundred different ways they could done New 52 Batgirl book, which is awful. Let me give you the overall theme of the book: trauma. #1-16 Trauma from Joker. #17-present trauma from James Jr.'s "death". November? MORE TRAUMA. For a character who's supposedly to inhibit strong female traits, New 52 Barbara Gordon is in actuality the opposite. In fact dare I say, she's even worse than Stephanie was as Spoiler. :shock: We also have "3" Robins (really 4 again thanks editors), 4 Green Lanterns, and 2 Flashes. Female legacies? 0. Way to go there DC. More so when you just bring back Cassandra Cain by a writer WHO WANTS TO WRITE THE CHARACTER, who just so also happens to be your "hot" writer too. What are you afraid of? Him succeeding? Toppling your beloved Barbara? That's what I think.

But back to my point on Teen Titans. The run is garbage. No character has come out good or well written. The book needs another complete rehaul, or worse a five year break. Because DC clearly doesn't know how to handle teenage characters. If I wanted to read an actual good book called Teen Titans I'd read Wolfram/Perez's. It's the same exact run Lobdell's doing only the run that clearly Lobdell is now literally ripping off and failing hard at.

As for Superman books let me repeat what I said. SCOTT LOBDELL is running them. If that isn't a thought that scares you, than you clearly don't remember mid 90s X-Men. Oh also so happened to be driven into the ground by Bob Harras. The man just loves ruining good things doesn't he?
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syxxpakk

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:43 pm

What I'm saying is, what if people enjoy it though? What if someone who loved the mid-90s X-Men now loves Superman today? You're essentially asking for the same thing to happen to that person, as happened to you. The more and more I think about it, I love Grayson's compromise-suggestion.
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fieldy snuts

Rain Partier

Postby fieldy snuts » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:45 pm

speaking on 90's writers, its kinda funny that i can put fabian nicieza on two polar opposite lists based on the stuff he's wrote:

best and worst writers of the 90's. and usually for stuff he wrote on the same runs.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:55 pm

syxxpakk wrote:What I'm saying is, what if people enjoy it though? What if someone who loved the mid-90s X-Men now loves Superman today? You're essentially asking for the same thing to happen to that person, as happened to you. The more and more I think about it, I love Grayson's compromise-suggestion.


Compromise-suggestion? In this era of DC? We already know its moot point since their editors think they know more than their writers and the fans do.

I too loved parts of 90s X-Men. Bastion? Post? Loved that. Ice Man (both subplots), Joseph, Marrow, and Cecilia Reyes? Loved that too. But there was other stuff after re-reading it? I realize too that it was standard fair and also one burdened by an editor who thought he knows better than the writer. He drove Fab, Mark Waid, and then even after Lobdell two more writers.

But I also recall other experiments during the Harras Era of Marvel. Particularly the Mackie/Bryne run on Spidey. I'm sorry, but I get the deju vu when seeing Lobdell's Superman. Knowing Harras will once again pull another window that'll piss off the fan base gloriously like the "death of MJ' or "Green Goblin V".

Sad thing is I do love Lobdell. I loved his Riddler issue on Gotham Sirens. But the man simply doesn't fight against editors when he should. Until when there was the final straw aka what he wished Zero Tolerance to be.
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syxxpakk

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:56 pm

I really think we're just having two different discussions :lol:
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Thu Aug 01, 2013 9:59 pm

syxxpakk wrote:I really think we're just having two different discussions :lol:


I agree. :lol:
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Draco x

Fagorstorm

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:06 pm

syxxpakk wrote:
Well, I don't know what that has to do with anything, but you said that the reboot had no purpose and that was my response. I'd also say it was done with the purpose of reinvigorating the line.


I should have said it served no good purpose in the long run.
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syxxpakk

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:08 pm

It got me buying comics on a weekly basis again, that's as noble a purpose as any I would say!
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Draco x

Fagorstorm

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:25 pm

syxxpakk wrote:It got me buying comics on a weekly basis again, that's as noble a purpose as any I would say!


You're better than I am. I have only liked the bat books from the New 52 and not much else.
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syxxpakk

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby syxxpakk » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:28 pm

Well as long you admit it.
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Draco x

Fagorstorm

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:29 pm

syxxpakk wrote:Well as long you admit it.


Fair point.
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SporkBot

Motherfucker from Hell

Postby SporkBot » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:32 pm

syxxpakk wrote:Now pause for a second and realize: a lot of people are saying the same thing you are in the opposite direction.


Oh, I know that. I've read/participated in conversations with people convinced that Starfire wasn't any different Post52 than she was pre52 (which is, incidentally, not true). I get that people like some of the New52. That's why, like Grayson, I've been saying for a while (perhaps since this whole fiasco was announced) that the New52 should've been an "Ultimate" line for DC. If they're so obsessed with the number 52, you can have 26 for each universe to keep it even. However, that doesn't excuse the concept and execution we got from criticism.

DC made a lot of claims about "fresh starts", but insisted on some stuff staying the same. They changed things that didn't need to be changed, because there was nothing wrong with those characters/traits. They canned several books within their first year, and more since then. Clearly, their business model was not well thought out, even if a few decent stories sprouted from it.

I guess I can see that it served a kind of "jumping on" point. But I started collecting comics some time after buying a Batman comic that took place after Batman's back was broken. I didn't really know what was going on, but it didn't really deter me. So...yeah.

If it's not broke, you don't fix it. DC chose to try and "fix" everything except what was broken. Personally, I think that there's more broken with DC now than in the previous universe.
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Draco x

Fagorstorm

Postby Draco x » Thu Aug 01, 2013 10:48 pm

SporkBot wrote:
Oh, I know that. I've read/participated in conversations with people convinced that Starfire wasn't any different Post52 than she was pre52 (which is, incidentally, not true). I get that people like some of the New52. That's why, like Grayson, I've been saying for a while (perhaps since this whole fiasco was announced) that the New52 should've been an "Ultimate" line for DC. If they're so obsessed with the number 52, you can have 26 for each universe to keep it even. However, that doesn't excuse the concept and execution we got from criticism.

DC made a lot of claims about "fresh starts", but insisted on some stuff staying the same. They changed things that didn't need to be changed, because there was nothing wrong with those characters/traits. They canned several books within their first year, and more since then. Clearly, their business model was not well thought out, even if a few decent stories sprouted from it.

I guess I can see that it served a kind of "jumping on" point. But I started collecting comics some time after buying a Batman comic that took place after Batman's back was broken. I didn't really know what was going on, but it didn't really deter me. So...yeah.

If it's not broke, you don't fix it. DC chose to try and "fix" everything except what was broken. Personally, I think that there's more broken with DC now than in the previous universe.


I couldn't have said it better.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Thu Aug 01, 2013 11:30 pm

syxxpakk wrote:It got me buying comics on a weekly basis again, that's as noble a purpose as any I would say!


The only good it did me was make me fan of IDW. But I know history and I know it is inevitable that certain characters will return and YET another reboot/relaunch will occur. It is the nature of DC. Hopefully whomever does it next time does a better job at it.

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