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by **Arion** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:58 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:
I just picked up issue #2 yesterday. OHMYGOD IT'S SO FUCKING GOOD. Where has this Fraction been since Invincible Iron Man #25?

I read issues # 1 & 2 and I loved them. Besides, we have a lot of Allred goodness.

Check my blog if you want to read my comments about the first issue.

by **MoneyMelon** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:01 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:
I just downloaded the first New 52 issues of Wonder Woman and Flash. I'm excited to read them, but not sure if I'll continue beyond that.

I like both of those books. Wonder Woman is very cool (can't believe I just said that about WW) and Flash is flawed but I still like it.

Honestly, I think DC's handling of their major characters has been ok, aside from Superman. Aquaman is decent, Batman is good (depending on which of the 45 ongoing books you read), Flash is fun, Wonder Woman is really good, even Green Lantern is mostly ok (the quality is dropping though). Justice League and Superman are pretty big embarrassments though.

It's really the second tier stuff that's killing DC, IMO. Not enough talented writers and waaaaay too many books.

by **MoneyMelon** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:04 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:
Already reading it. I wonder what happened to make Fraction's work go from awesome (Casanova, The Order, Invincible Iron Man 1-24) to fucking awful (Uncanny X-Men, Thor, Defenders) to sublime (FF, Hawkeye) in the course of 5 years!

I think it's just a simple case of a writer being a better fit for some books and a poor fit for others.

by **Zechs** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:21 pm

TimDrake'sDumbWings wrote:
Already reading it. I wonder what happened to make Fraction's work go from awesome (Casanova, The Order, Invincible Iron Man 1-24) to fucking awful (Uncanny X-Men, Thor, Defenders) to sublime (FF, Hawkeye) in the course of 5 years!

The finale to his Thor run is EPIC. Of course it was tied to JiM and thus the reason it was so damn good.

by **chap22** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:38 pm

MoneyMelon wrote:
I like both of those books. Wonder Woman is very cool (can't believe I just said that about WW) and Flash is flawed but I still like it.

Honestly, I think DC's handling of their major characters has been ok, aside from Superman. Aquaman is decent, Batman is good (depending on which of the 45 ongoing books you read), Flash is fun, Wonder Woman is really good, even Green Lantern is mostly ok (the quality is dropping though). Justice League and Superman are pretty big embarrassments though.

It's really the second tier stuff that's killing DC, IMO. Not enough talented writers and waaaaay too many books.

yeah, the second tier stuff is just killing DC. which is weird, b/c then the third and fourth tier stuff (i.e. the Dark corner of the DCU, with I, Vampire, Swamp Thing, Animal Man, JL Dark, and Demon Knights) has been better than even a lot of the first tier. but all the stuff that's just below the big guns, like Hawkman, JLI, Teen Titans, etc. has just been awful, and really shouldn't be.

by **UnionJack** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:51 pm

Arion wrote:
Read Fraction and Allred's FF. Makes every DC book look like 'grim and gritty' stuff by comparison.

Haven't read FF yet but that & Fantastic Four will remain on my pull list. Can always rely on the Fantastic Four for a sense of adventure & escapism.
Most likely dropping Iron Man (not down to the new creative team, found myself going off this title a while ago). Just read the Fraction run as a whole and found myself very underwhelmed.
Also probably dropping all the Spider-Family of books. Don't seem to be fun anymore.

by **S.F. Jude Terror** » Tue Jan 15, 2013 8:48 pm

MoneyMelon wrote:
I like both of those books. Wonder Woman is very cool (can't believe I just said that about WW) and Flash is flawed but I still like it.

Honestly, I think DC's handling of their major characters has been ok, aside from Superman. Aquaman is decent, Batman is good (depending on which of the 45 ongoing books you read), Flash is fun, Wonder Woman is really good, even Green Lantern is mostly ok (the quality is dropping though). Justice League and Superman are pretty big embarrassments though.

It's really the second tier stuff that's killing DC, IMO. Not enough talented writers and waaaaay too many books.

Well, there has to be 52. Because.

by **Trouble821** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:28 am

Is Snyder being dropped from swamp thing to try revive superman?

by **TimDrake'sDumbWings** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:31 am

Zechs wrote:

I want to as well, but I'm terrified they'll screw him as they've done almost every writer they have eventually.

Read Wonder Woman and Flash 1 this evening. Surprisingly great stuff, especially Flash. I might stick to buying them during Comixology sales, but I'm definitely interested in reading more.

by **Zechs** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:37 am

Trouble821 wrote:Is Snyder being dropped from swamp thing to try revive superman?

Yep. More than likely editorial told him he did all he could with Swamp Thing and they want him to make them A TON of money on Superman for them.

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:31 am

Zero wrote:Pfft, stupid DC

Yeah, shame on DC for cancelling a book that was selling fewer that sold under 14,000 comics in November.

158 - I, VAMPIRE
11/2011: I, Vampire #3 -- 26,070 (-24.7%)
12/2011: I, Vampire #4 -- 21,601 (-17.1%)
01/2012: I, Vampire #5 -- 18,816 (-12.9%)
02/2012: I, Vampire #6 -- 18,153 (- 3.5%)
03/2012: I, Vampire #7 -- 18,440 (+ 1.6%)
04/2012: I, Vampire #8 -- 18,717 (+ 1.5%)
05/2012: I, Vampire #9 -- 17,175 (- 8.2%)
06/2012: I, Vampire #10 -- 16,517 (- 3.8%)
07/2012: I, Vampire #11 -- 15,734 (- 4.7%)
08/2012: I, Vampire #12 -- 14,788 (- 6.0%)
09/2012: I, Vampire #0 -- 17,920 (+21.2%)
10/2012: I, Vampire #13 -- 14,260 (-20.4%)
11/2012: I, Vampire #14 -- 13,666 (- 4.2%)

http://comicsbeat.com/dc-comics-month-to-month-sales-november-2012/

by **Juan Cena** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 1:35 am

UnionJack wrote:Shame about I, Vampire. I came to it late when I got a run of issues on eBay and have enjoyed it since.
It annoys me that lesser known series don't last. I'm no businessman but can't sales of the more popular books support those of less so?
Soon all we'll have to choose from Marvel & DC will be X-Men, Avengers & Batman...
I seem to be going against the flow here - I used to read more Marvel than DC but now this has reversed. I read a lot more of DC's output now. Marvel seem to be trying to inject realism into their comics something which couldn't be more out of place in the world of superheroes. They also seem to be grittier & more downbeat which just doesn't interest me. About to drop another 4 or 5 Marvels.

The more popular book can probably only support themselves, esp with paying higher-profile creators more money.

I'm pretty sure DC keeps afloat more due to Superman and Batman licensing than it does publishing comics these days.

by **oogy** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:02 pm

Zechs wrote:
Yep. More than likely editorial told him he did all he could with Swamp Thing and they want him to make them A TON of money on Superman for them.

I'm pretty sure that Snyder has said that he's stayed on Swamp Thing longer than he originally intended so that he could finish out the RotWorld stuff.

by **Amoebas** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:24 pm

oogy wrote:I'm pretty sure that Snyder has said that he's stayed on Swamp Thing longer than he originally intended so that he could finish out the RotWorld stuff.

oogy - 1
Zechs - 0

post10116358.html?hilit=snyder#p10116358

by **Arion** » Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:24 pm

UnionJack wrote:
Haven't read FF yet but that & Fantastic Four will remain on my pull list. Can always rely on the Fantastic Four for a sense of adventure & escapism.
Most likely dropping Iron Man (not down to the new creative team, found myself going off this title a while ago). Just read the Fraction run as a whole and found myself very underwhelmed.
Also probably dropping all the Spider-Family of books. Don't seem to be fun anymore.

Let me know what you think of FF once you've read the first issues.