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"Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

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Stephen Day

Wrasslin' Fan

Postby Stephen Day » Sun Dec 22, 2013 10:34 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:Secret Avengers have an out for Taskmaster though...remember those healing factor bullets in the first arc?


Hmmm, I forgot about those.
User avatar

Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Sun Dec 22, 2013 11:57 pm

Rogue, Wonder Man, and Scarlet Witch will be back. When you're in a story involving freaking Kang then timey whimey things will happen. By the end of next year they'll be back.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:19 am

BubbaKanoosh wrote:
We get it, you like murders in comics... quit trying to make comics realistic. In a world where men can turn into fire and people shoot lasers from their eyes, realistic is out the window.

It's getting tiresome.


Any medium without death is going nowhere. No stakes, no tension, no sales.

Every single great run on a comic book has had deaths.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:45 am

Stephen Day wrote:
The problem is the overuse of both. Four deaths, all happening within a month is a lot in that short period of time. By the time I read Secret Avengers this week and got to Taskmaster's death there was absolutely no impact in what I read. My reaction was, "not another one." That's a reaction that, I think I can guarantee, the writer for Secret Avengers wasn't going for.

It may not be a problem with individual writers, but it is a problem with editing and the communication between editors. A comic book company should not be having that many endings that are that similar in that short a period of time.
User avatar

BubbaKanoosh

2009 Most Valuable Poster

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:56 am

Jubilee wrote:
Any medium without death is going nowhere. No stakes, no tension, no sales.

Every single great run on a comic book has had deaths.


I can name some great ones that didn't...

Deaths don't make it great, a good story will make it great. What happens now is the use of death is just a cliched plot device to be try to be shocking, to push the new big badguy on the block, it's no longer there to further a story like the great storylines out there (where death was few and far between).

I'm not saying death is comics shouldn't happen, but what you are asking is unrealistic and stupid. You want death for the sake of deaths.

And I am pretty sure if more people died in comics, the sales wouldn't go up. The comics medium is dying whether or not Capt. America or Nightcrawler stayed dead or not.
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Amoebas

Son of Stein

Postby Amoebas » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:18 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:Deaths don't make it great, a good story will make it great.

Bubba -1
Twig - 0
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outsider

Outhouse Drafter

Postby outsider » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:20 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:And I am pretty sure if more people died in comics, the sales wouldn't go up.
Yup, otherwise Blackest Night would have been the all-time highest selling series.
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GOSD

Everybody lies!

Postby GOSD » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:28 pm

Amoebas wrote:Bubba -1
Twig - 0


:lol:
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john lewis hawk

Founder of The Outhouse

Postby john lewis hawk » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:53 pm

Death in comic books are overrated both in terms of the support and criticism of them. First off, there's a lot of mediocre comic book writers out there who either don't have much in the way of skills or are just re-hashing previous stories and using continuity as a crutch. These guys can't write a great story if their life depended on it.

As for death itself, the difficulty with comic books is that the stories are getting longer and writers are going back to earlier stories that they've done. A story is not really done until the writer leaves and a new #1 issue comes out. Take Remender's Uncanny X-Force for example. Great, critically acclaimed story that started off with the heroes killing a teenage version of Aocalypse. Yet, a teenage Apocalypse showed up later in the series and has been featured in stories by other writers. Furthermore, Uncanny Avengers is tying into that run as well.

And comic books not needing to be realistic is a ridiculous opinion. So, the red wedding shouldn't have happened in Games of Thrones because there's fucking dragons in that world? We don't need an explanation for why a normal human being such as Cyclops can generate eye beams with the force to knock the Hulk on his ass without breaking Cyke's neck or how exactly Dr. Octopus jumped into and took over Spider-Man's brain but we do need an explanation for why Cyclops decided to use the old Weapon X site as his X-Men's base and why SpOck hooked up with his current girlfriend.

As for these deaths, the stories aren't done. Remender, like I mentioned earlier, is used to taking his time with a story and Uncanny has Kang the Conqueror and other time travel elements to it. There's no way that all of the superheroes will stay dead at the end. Nick Spencer is similar in that Morning Glories, his indie title, has taken forever to develop. with his own mini and Avengers: Academy, Taskmaster is the most popular the character's ever been. However, unlike the others, I can see him being used in a Marvel movie or TV show so maybe Taskmaster will be dead until he shows up in Marvel's cinematic universe.
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Keb

<( ' . ' )>

Postby Keb » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:42 pm

Protagonist death is overrated.

There are writers who can't write a story without killing a protagonist or two. There are writers who can.

Moore's Swamp Thing has no protagonists die (unless you count Matt Cable who goes into a coma then becomes a bird). Maybe if you count Zatarra but he's barely even a supporting character.

I think Morrison did it best with Animal Man when he killed Buddy's family and brought them back.

I don't think Rogue, Wonder Man and Scarlet Witch are really going to be dead though.
User avatar

Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:47 pm

Death is meaningless in comic books.

It is meaningless to the characters, so therefore it is meaningless to audience.

Look at a well written comic book, like Fables. When a certain character died in that book it had huge ramifications in the book, it literally wasn't the same after that.

But in the Big 2 things are always the same, so death doesn't change anything, it doesn't change the character, they are given 2 issues max to mourn and that is it.

The big death I was referring to in fables is
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Boy Blue
in case anyone was wondering.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:57 pm

Rockman wrote:Death is meaningless in comic books.

It is meaningless to the characters, so therefore it is meaningless to audience.

Look at a well written comic book, like Fables. When a certain character died in that book it had huge ramifications in the book, it literally wasn't the same after that.

But in the Big 2 things are always the same, so death doesn't change anything, it doesn't change the character, they are given 2 issues max to mourn and that is it.

The big death I was referring to in fables is
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Boy Blue
in case anyone was wondering.


Yeah so resurrections are the problem not deaths.

Simple.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 2:59 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:
I can name some great ones that didn't...

Deaths don't make it great, a good story will make it great. What happens now is the use of death is just a cliched plot device to be try to be shocking, to push the new big badguy on the block, it's no longer there to further a story like the great storylines out there (where death was few and far between).

I'm not saying death is comics shouldn't happen, but what you are asking is unrealistic and stupid. You want death for the sake of deaths.

And I am pretty sure if more people died in comics, the sales wouldn't go up. The comics medium is dying whether or not Capt. America or Nightcrawler stayed dead or not.


What tv shows do you watch?

Imagine if you said to the writers of those tv shows "You're not allowed to kill any of the characters"

Think how much that would suck.
User avatar

Zero

Zombie Guard

Postby Zero » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:01 pm

Jubilee wrote:
What tv shows do you watch?

Imagine if you said to the writers of those tv shows "You're not allowed to kill any of the characters"

Think how much that would suck.


RIP Starburns

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 3:03 pm

Zero wrote:
RIP Starburns


I should have expanded it to drama's really. Obviously sitcoms and childrens animation often plays by it's own rules.

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