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"Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:24 pm

Jubilee wrote:
What tv shows do you watch?

Imagine if you said to the writers of those tv shows "You're not allowed to kill any of the characters"

Think how much that would suck.


The tv shows I watch, be it drama or otherwise, i'd still enjoy if there were deaths or not as long as the story was good.

People died left, right, and centre in The Following and I felt I lost I.Q. Watching that piece of shit.

I don't go into a show and enjoy it in the hope someone gets whacked.

You're morbid fuck if you do.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Zero » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:28 pm

Jubilee wrote:
I should have expanded it to drama's really. Obviously sitcoms and childrens animation often plays by it's own rules.


Are you suggesting that what works in one genre might not work in all of them? Why that is an idea that may have merit.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby HNutz » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:58 pm

BubbaKanoosh wrote:
I can name some great ones that didn't...

Deaths don't make it great, a good story will make it great. What happens now is the use of death is just a cliched plot device to be try to be shocking, to push the new big badguy on the block, it's no longer there to further a story like the great storylines out there (where death was few and far between).

I'm not saying death is comics shouldn't happen, but what you are asking is unrealistic and stupid. You want death for the sake of deaths.

And I am pretty sure if more people died in comics, the sales wouldn't go up. The comics medium is dying whether or not Capt. America or Nightcrawler stayed dead or not.


Jubilee wrote:What tv shows do you watch?

Imagine if you said to the writers of those tv shows "You're not allowed to kill any of the characters"

Think how much that would suck.


There's a difference between never, ever, EVER killing off a character and a series becoming a bloodbath, killing characters off like most people use punctuation.

TNG managed to tell good stories without pointless character deaths. So did DS9. And Alias. And Doctor Who. Etc.

Whedon's not afraid to kill a character, but he never did it at the end of every episode..

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Rockman » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:59 pm

Jubilee wrote:
Yeah so resurrections are the problem not deaths.

Simple.


Not simple.

The problems with Marvel and DC aren't the lack of deaths, or the over abundance of death, or the over abundance of resurrections. Even resurrections can be good storytelling if handled properly (oh hello there Gandalf) You just want to simplify it so you can have an easy talking point to bring up every time you feel like winding up fans when their favorite character dies.

A lot of people still enjoy Marvel and DC, I stopped enjoying it a few years ago. I know there are still good stories being told but ultimately the problems with those two companies is they are telling these ultra long form stories that have no end, all middle. I don't think this is the way to tell a good story, and got tired of it.

I enjoy stuff like Fables much more, or Y the last man or anything that has a clear beginning middle and end. They are better stories, the deaths matter, the resurrections matter, the events matter because they lead to a conclusion.

But over at Marvel you could have Aunt May turned into a Brood alien, marry Doctor Octopus, put on the quantum bands, or marry JJJ's father. None of it really matters because in a year Peter Parker will act as always had, and all of it will be for naught. Aunt May could never come back, it wouldn't matter because you'd get the same stories with someone else nagging him instead of his aunt.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Rockman » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:03 pm

I think Whedon has utitlized death for the shock factor before.

Willow's gf
Wash
Kitty Pryde

I'm not a fan of Wesley dying but I don't think that counts as a death only for the shock factor.

A good death is important to the characters and hopefully the story as well. Quinn died in season one of Angel but it ended up being one of the most important events of the show, Buffy's mothers death changed the character forever, not in the mopey Batman way but it matured her. These are examples of good deaths, they resonated with the audience they resonated with the characters.

Not something that Twigg's patron saint Mark Millar would do, like tossing a baby from a window or something.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Keb » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:18 pm

I thought Twiggy's patron saint was Bendis?

Who is obviously not the patron saint of rap battles because that boy was running scared when I dissed him in YouTube.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby IvCNuB4 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:03 pm

Keb wrote:I thought Twiggy's patron saint was Bendis?

Who is obviously not the patron saint of rap battles because that boy was running scared when I dissed him in YouTube.


Doesn't have the same impact unless you're very publicly cyber-hair-pulling on Facebook :P
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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:28 pm

HNutz wrote:


There's a difference between never, ever, EVER killing off a character and a series becoming a bloodbath, killing characters off like most people use punctuation.

TNG managed to tell good stories without pointless character deaths. So did DS9. And Alias. And Doctor Who. Etc.

Whedon's not afraid to kill a character, but he never did it at the end of every episode..


We're not talking at the end of every comic are we. We're talking about at the end of maybe .25% of comics Marvel and DC release.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby HNutz » Mon Dec 23, 2013 6:46 pm

Jubilee wrote:
We're not talking at the end of every comic are we. We're talking about at the end of maybe .25% of comics Marvel and DC release.


Well...

The OP mentioned 3 deaths in last week's comics.

Stephen Day wrote:There are spoilers for Secret Avengers #13, Inhumanity #1 and Uncanny Avengers #14 in what I'm about to post, so be warned as you scroll down from here.


So, 3 issues out of... how many did Marvel publish last week?

AR 12/18/13 "MARVEL COMICS","All-New Marvel NOW Previews #1 (Promotional Item)","
AR"12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","All-New X-Men #20 (Art Adams X-Men 50th Anniversary Variant Cover)",
"AR"12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","All-New X-Men #20 (Brandon Peterson Regular Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Amazing Spider-Man #700.4 (Mirco Pierfederici Variant Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Amazing Spider-Man #700.4 (Pasqual Ferry Regular Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Amazing Spider-Man #700.5 (In-Hyuk Lee Variant Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Amazing Spider-Man #700.5 (Pasqual Ferry Regular Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Astonishing X-Men Volume 12 Unmasked TP",$29.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Avengers Assemble #22.INH",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Cataclysm Ultimate X-Men #2 (Of 3)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Daredevil #34",$2.9912/18/13,
"MARVEL COMICS","Deadpool #21",$2.9912/18/13,
"MARVEL COMICS","Deadpool Classic Volume 9 TP",$29.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Deadpool Volume 3 The Good The Bad And The Ugly TP",$15.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Fantastic Four #15",$2.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","FF #15",$2.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Indestructible Hulk #17.INH",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Longshot Saves The Marvel Universe #4 (Of 4)",$2.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Marvel Comics 2014 Calendar (Promotional Item)","
AR"12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Marvel Masterworks Atlas Era Strange Tales Volume 6 HC",$74.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Marvel Masterworks Atlas Era Strange Tales Volume 6 HC (Direct Market Variant Edition Volume 201)",$74.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Marvel Masterworks Golden Age Marvel Comics Volume 2 TP",$29.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Marvel Masterworks Golden Age Marvel Comics Volume 2 TP (Direct Market Variant Edition Volume 60)",$29.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Powers Bureau Volume 1 Undercover TP",$19.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Scarlet Spider #25 (Last Issue)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Secret Avengers #13",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Spider-Man The Gathering Of Five TP",$29.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Superior Spider-Man #24 (Humberto Ramos Regular Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Superior Spider-Man #24 (Stefano Caselli Variant Cover)",
"AR"12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Superior Spider-Man Team-Up #8",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Thor God Of Thunder #16",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Thunderbolts Annual 2013 #1",$4.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Uncanny Avengers #15",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Uncanny X-Force #15",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Venom The Land Where The Killers Dwell TP",$15.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","X-Factor Volume 21 The End Of X-Factor TP",$14.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","X-Men #8 (Terry Dodson Regular Cover)",$3.99
12/18/13,"MARVEL COMICS","Young Avengers #14",$2.99


(At least) 3 of 18 new books ended in a death this week. That's 16.67% of Marvel's books this week.

I see his point. That's a high percentage for 1 week.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:04 pm

None of the books he mentions in his list come out this week.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby 3MJ » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:05 pm

One actually came out four weeks ago.

So say if Marvel released a similar amount of comics every week. That's 4%. 4% is apparently an abnormally large number enough to make a thread about.

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Stephen Day » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:57 pm

Jubilee wrote:One actually came out four weeks ago.

So say if Marvel released a similar amount of comics every week. That's 4%. 4% is apparently an abnormally large number enough to make a thread about.


Yeah, to be fair, I am taking about three stories that have come out within the last month. However, I'd still argue that that's still using the same plot device too often in too short a time span.

I'd also point out that 4% of the output of a comic book company's series is not the insignificant amount that you're making it out to be either. I don't want to see plot devices of any sort used too often and this comes across to me as doing just that.
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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Stephen Day » Mon Dec 23, 2013 7:58 pm

Jubilee wrote:None of the books he mentions in his list come out this week.


Actually one, Secret Avengers, did.
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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Keb » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:07 pm

A comic book character dies once a week but a starving child dies every hour.

*cue John Lennon music...

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Re: "Shocking" Deaths to End an Issue of a Comic Book

Postby Zechs » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:25 am

Rockman wrote:I think Whedon has utitlized death for the shock factor before.

Willow's gf
Wash
Kitty Pryde

I'm not a fan of Wesley dying but I don't think that counts as a death only for the shock factor.

A good death is important to the characters and hopefully the story as well. Quinn died in season one of Angel but it ended up being one of the most important events of the show, Buffy's mothers death changed the character forever, not in the mopey Batman way but it matured her. These are examples of good deaths, they resonated with the audience they resonated with the characters.

Not something that Twigg's patron saint Mark Millar would do, like tossing a baby from a window or something.


You forgot a few:

Buffy
Anya
Cordy
Doyle
Joyce
Lilah


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