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Starlord

Outhouse Editor

Postby Starlord » Sun Jan 10, 2010 2:50 am

Old Man wrote:Bendis has had the same faults for nigh unto a decade, and he just doesn't get any better.

Crap is crap, whether you call it crap, manure, or guano.


I agree. If a second baseman for a team can't hit a ball worth crap when they hire him, there's a good chance that two years down the line people are going to still be complaining about the same issue. Doesn't necessarily make it wrong.
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sdsichero

2k11 Outhouse People's Champion

Postby sdsichero » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:22 am

Dragavon wrote:John Byrne is a huge douche in person. That doesn't mean his art stops being good.


But... it did.

I mean his old work is pretty good, but I haven't like anything he'd done in many years.

Never cared for what I've read from Simone. Haven't read that much but what I did did not make me seek out her work.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:11 am

Old Man wrote:Bendis has had the same faults for nigh unto a decade, and he just doesn't get any better.

Crap is crap, whether you call it crap, manure, or guano.


They aren't faults. You twerp.
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Wally Brando

Rain Partier

Postby Wally Brando » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:53 am

Punchy wrote:They aren't faults. You twerp.


I rest my case. :lol:
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:54 am

Chris wrote:I rest my case. :lol:


X-Factor sucks! :x
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thefourthman

Outhouse Editor

Postby thefourthman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:59 pm

doombug wrote:there's not a failure of art though. this is coipiel's strongest work like ever.

personally and I will have to go back and read old man's I had to stop reading the Savage Critics review, because his problem with the art was a problem of perspective, he felt that the scene wasn't big enough for what it should have been... that is opinion, it would have been just as easy to pick on the art for doing what the critic asks for because it would have been cliche... it's almost a lose lose situation for the artist at that point. I feel the way he did makes it bigger, we know there are big guns out there in the audience but since they blend into the crowd you realize how big and imposing the army is. As for closeups of Ares face, how the fuck is COpiel, supposed to do that and show the crowd at the same time and not cause more of the same old same old decompression that comics are very bad at doing these days?? I think a manga artist could pull off what the guy is asking for, I don't know that I could think of an American artist who could, it is a difference in the way we tell stories. Hopefully that will change with time. However, if the guy is asking for American artists to start showing manga influence now, then a. I say fuck him, cause I like the general american style better, b. he should just read manga instead, and c. it's not gonna happen over night... sure we do a lot of mimicking, but aping is not the same as making something your own.
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thefourthman

Outhouse Editor

Postby thefourthman » Sun Jan 10, 2010 4:14 pm

my favorite critique ever that savage critic's thing... he mentions that the HUlk Preview ends in the middle of a sentence? :?


1st of all - its a preview, not the book proper, if anything it should be mentioned as a plus or I could take (however wrong it may be) "this is what I got for my extra dollar)... but it ends in the middle of a sentence? It's a fucking preview, if you cared so much what the rest of the sentence was then you would buy it and know, dumb ass.
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guitarsmashley

Regular-Sized Poster

Postby guitarsmashley » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:08 pm

I'm tired and don't feel like writing a full review. I didn't like the art at all and the story was just ok.

6
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Old Man

cheese

Postby Old Man » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:21 pm

I find it so much easier to review a book I don't like, especially when it is done so poorly. I gave it a 6 because I gave it a bonus point for the smackdown of the Mary Sue character, but perhaps in the future I'll not do that. I'm feeling today that I should have given it the 5 I was first going to.

See the movie Ed Wood, with Johnny Depp as Wood. When it is obvious to others that his movie is far from perfect, he ignores that and moves on to his next project. I compare Bendis's stories to Ed Wood's movies. There are good ideas available, but once they are set to paper, there is no follow through, and it's off to the next idea.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:22 pm

Old Man wrote:I find it so much easier to review a book I don't like, especially when it is done so poorly. I gave it a 6 because I gave it a bonus point for the smackdown of the Mary Sue character, but perhaps in the future I'll not do that. I'm feeling today that I should have given it the 5 I was first going to.

See the movie Ed Wood, with Johnny Depp as Wood. When it is obvious to others that his movie is far from perfect, he ignores that and moves on to his next project. I compare Bendis's stories to Ed Wood's movies. There are good ideas available, but once they are set to paper, there is no follow through, and it's off to the next idea.


What comic writers do you like?
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Old Man

cheese

Postby Old Man » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:24 pm

thefourthman wrote:my favorite critique ever that savage critic's thing... he mentions that the HUlk Preview ends in the middle of a sentence? :?


1st of all - its a preview, not the book proper, if anything it should be mentioned as a plus or I could take (however wrong it may be) "this is what I got for my extra dollar)... but it ends in the middle of a sentence? It's a fucking preview, if you cared so much what the rest of the sentence was then you would buy it and know, dumb ass.


I just looked at the last page of the preview. It does end with an unfinished sentence. I would guess that the next page wasn't included in the preview because it likely reveals something they wanted to keep secret for now.
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Old Man

cheese

Postby Old Man » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:49 pm

Jubilee wrote:What comic writers do you like?


Geoff Johns. Peter Tomasi. Garth Ennis. Warren Ellis. Gail Simone. Grant Morrison. Alan Moore. Art Baltazar. Peter David. Joss Whedon. About 1/3 of what Mark Millar writes. The occasional Paul Jenkins story knocks my socks off. Stan Sakai. Neil Gaiman. Kurt Busiek. Some of Greg Rucka, Len Wein, Keith Giffen, Bill Willingham. Ed Brubaker's first story on Daredevil was great.

Probably several more that don't come to mind right now.

But not Bendis.

3MJ

Postby 3MJ » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:50 pm

Old Man wrote:Geoff Johns. Peter Tomasi. Garth Ennis. Warren Ellis. Gail Simone. Grant Morrison. Alan Moore. Art Baltazar. Peter David. Joss Whedon. About 1/3 of what Mark Millar writes. The occasional Paul Jenkins story knocks my socks off. Stan Sakai. Neil Gaiman. Kurt Busiek. Some of Greg Rucks, Len Wein, Keith Giffen, Bill Willingham. Ed Brubaker's first story on Daredevil was great.

Probably several more that don't come to mind right now.

But not Bendis.


I could go through a Geoff Johns comic, and aply the exact same critiques you posted to this story, yet you wouldn't mind it with him.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:53 pm

Siege #1(of 4) - 'Siege' - Bendis, Coipel, Morales and Martin

Story - I've written before how it is rather difficult to review Event Comics, they are not written to elicit critical response, but more of a knee-jerk, 'holy-shit-was-that-awesome-or-what'? one. Even when reviewing a book I didn't really like, such as Blackest Night, there were moments that did excite me, and did shock me, and since thta's what Events are designed to do, do you forgive the book's faults?

But now we come to an event from a writer I am a big fan of, tieing up years of story that I have almost unilaterally loved. Can I actually review this? Or will I be reduced to a quivering child, rambling about all the awesome explosions?

Well, It's a bit of both, Siege #1 is certainly a strong comic, an exciting issue which packs a lot of stuff in, but I do have some reservations.

Siege is supposed to be the event which ties up all of Bendis' long-running plot threads ever since Disassembled, and I think the way he's doing it is genius, the catalyst for Siege comes from Civil War, as Loki and Norman decide to engineer their own Stamford, their own 9/11, in order to start a War with Asgard. And it works,the Voluminous Volstagg is attacked, the Chicago American Football Stadium is blown up, and Norman rushes off to War. But this time he doesn't have Presidential permission. It is in this that I feel that Siege's short 4-issue length shows it's negative side, in Civil War there were about 1 and a half issues for you to feel the impact of Stamford, here, it's not really dwelled on, maybe it is in Siege: Embedded, but I didn't pick that up. Unusually for Bendis he moves at lightning (heh, Lightning, get it, like Thor) speed, and it actually makes you wish he'd slow down a bit, decompression aint all bad ya know? He has a lot to accomplish in these 4 issues, can he do it?

I think what's most impressive about this is that Bendis still manages to put the characters first, above the events. Norman, Loki, Ares and others all get important bits of characterisation, I'm working on the advantage of following these books for a long time, but it's not just a mindless abrupt full-stop to an awesome sentence, this makes sense. I am particularly interested in what Ares will get up to in this series, he is not a bad guy, and surely he must realise what's going on here? The Sentry too, he doesn't say a word in this issue, and that's how he works best, he's a scary guy, and when he takes out Thor, you hold your breath. I don't really like Thor, and am one of the few Sentry fans out there, so this actually pleased me, stupid Thor.

Interestingly, we don't get much from the point of view of the heroes here, you see Tony, but he's comatose still (as per the RG from a few weeks back), and Thor is quickly despatched by Osborn's forces. The last page is exciting though, it's Captain America and he's mad. Marvel have been using Steve Rogers as a last-page cliff-hanger a lot lately, but it's still effective. In this issue we see neither hide nor hair of the New Avengers, or even the Mighty Avengers, and you have to think they'll be heavily involved, this event is supposedly bringing back the so-called 'Classic' Avengers, after all. Once again, is only 3 more issues going to be enough?

Siege #1 is a pretty much perfect Event opener, it kicks off with a bang (literally), and then moves swiftly and cleverly through a series of important and shocking events, without skimping on character, you've got Loki's machinations, Norman's madness, and friction in his team. As I said, I have concerns about whether Bendis can accomplish all his goals in the next 3 issues, but they are future concerns, when it comes to Siege #1, I really enjoyed it, in that child-like way we really all should feel more often. It was just awesome right?

Art - Olivier Coipel is a fantastic artist, I've enjoyed his work ever since Avengers: Red Zone with Geoff Johns, and he's only gotten better since. He meshed wonderfully with Bendis on House Of M, and it's just as good here. I love his cartoony, yet realistic style, he can do exaggerated expressions, but then he pulls out a scene with an epic grandeur Bryan Hitch would be hard-pressed to beat, like the splash page which shows Norman's invasion force.

His layouts are also very interesting, the double page spread where Loki wakes Balder is an excellent example, as are the 2 pages where Donald Blake becomes Thor and then attacks Norman, he just does things no other artist really does, and although it's a different experience, it's a good one.

Best Line - Either 'Well he's the Fattest damn super hero I've ever seen...' or 'And now you have your incident'. Funny and chilling, Bendis does both!

8/10, a really strong issue, but has Bendis bitten off more than he can chew? Either way, the future is unknown, and you can't hold the unknown against this issue. But you should buy The Unknown, it's a good book.
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Old Man

cheese

Postby Old Man » Sun Jan 10, 2010 6:58 pm

Jubilee wrote:I could go through a Geoff Johns comic, and aply the exact same critiques you posted to this story,...


Do so. Put your money where your lips are.

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