The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Rockman]

what CAN we do to decrease the sexism in comic books?

Nothing aside from voting with our wallets and not being sexist ourselves.

All this there aren't enough women in the industry or they're being harassed at cons by professionals is something that is completely out of my control. Fowler wants the publishers to reign these guys in, but I'd expect the publisher to rely more on heresay of skeavy behavior before they reprimand someone.

As for people being called crazy rather than being listened to. If Folwer had posted her letter that went into the event in a calm rational manner first I don't think anyone would have made that statement. Those comments were based on her twitter rant.

[Punchy]

what CAN we do to decrease the sexism in comic books?

Nothing aside from voting with our wallets and not being sexist ourselves.

You can also write hectoring, lecturing blog posts and articles that create strawman arguments and piss everyone off. It's what everyone else does.

[HNutz]

Fowler says:

But this really does need to stop. This ease with which folks reach out to silence women who bring it up. This immediate jump to, “She’s nuts. She wants attention. She’s unstable.” I repeat my message from Twitter: The men in this industry have the power to change things. Brian being one of them, actually. My account is above, in detail, for anyone who wants to see how the power play can be subtle, and scary, and wrong all at the same time.

Again, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt here and say maybe he really just has no clue that his behavior was wrong, or could have such a lasting affect on someone who once looked up to him. I can believe that. And I can believe a lot of men reading this, in positions like Brian’s, might feel the same way.

So how about we use this opportunity to link arms and work towards finding ways to fix this? Open discussions, and a devotion to never letting such behavior stand. Forgiveness for those men who can admit the wrong doing and want to make a change. Togetherness. One tribe. One family.

Her Twitter tirade and her later response were two very different things, though.

Which one would you say is more likely to foster open discussions and togetherness? The angry tweets or the more calculated response?

[thefourthman]

I don't think comics fandom is like a locker room at all. Guys would love if their girlfriends were into comics. Comic fans would love to have more female fans. Look at these nerds! They don't want less women. They want more women.

Now the behavior on message boards is disgusting, but that's internet wide.

Maybe, maybe not. We do know peole are talking about it. We do know people are being attacked at cons. The behavior on the internet shouldn't necessarily be given a pass either.

[Frag]

Maybe, maybe not. We do know peole are talking about it. We do know people are being attacked at cons. The behavior on the internet shouldn't necessarily be given a pass either.

See the attacks at cons and the "casting couch" as it was put earlier are two separate issues IMO. If you put them together you are just saying "guys are sexist" and it's not an industry problem, but a societal. If this is truly a problem in this industry, it needs to be more focused.

And internet behavior is not exclusive to comic book message boards.

[McKegan]

See the attacks at cons and the "casting couch" as it was put earlier are two separate issues IMO. If you put them together you are just saying "guys are sexist" and it's not an industry problem, but a societal. If this is truly a problem in this industry, it needs to be more focused.

And internet behavior is not exclusive to comic book message boards.

I find this response problematic. Just because sexism is a societal issue it doesn't mean it should be dismissed when it occurs within the specific community we are a part of. Just because other message boards suck, it doesn't mean we should tolerate sexism in message boards where we actively participate.

[Frag]

I find this response problematic. Just because sexism is a societal issue it doesn't mean it should be dismissed when it occurs within the specific community we are a part of. Just because other message boards suck, it doesn't mean we should tolerate sexism in message boards where we actively participate.

Of course we shouldn't tolerate it, but if it is that big of a problem throughout society, then any fix will be like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

For example, companies could hire 20% more women, but does that really change anything other than making us feel better and saying we did something?

That's why I think the problem needs to be identified and then addressed accordingly. Many people seem to just want to fix a problem when they don't know the question.

[McKegan]

Of course we shouldn't tolerate it, but if it is that big of a problem throughout society, then any fix will be like putting a band-aid on a broken leg.

Change rarely happens on a societal level. Change tends to occur incrementally within specific communities and within specific contexts. And the controversy is sexism within the comic community, makes sense we'd focus our discussion there. Addressing the specific controversy doesn't mean people are also saying sexism shouldn't be addressed in a broader context.

For example, companies could hire 20% more women, but does that really change anything other than making us feel better and saying we did something?

...it changes how many women those companies hired. That seems a significant change.

[Frag]

Change rarely happens on a societal level. Change tends to occur incrementally within specific communities and within specific contexts. And the controversy is sexism within the comic community, makes sense we'd focus our discussion there. Addressing the specific controversy doesn't mean people are also saying sexism shouldn't be addressed in a broader context.

Yes, but I think we are going about it the wrong way.

...it changes how many women those companies hired. That seems a significant change.

That's not a change that will change opinions. If anything, that creates more conflict. To change something like sexism, you need to change people's beliefs.

It's like how affirmative action didn't make people less racist.

[Frag]

...it changes how many women those companies hired. That seems a significant change.

And also, this is another change without a fact behind it.

We are under the impression that woman are underrepresented as creators, but we don't know what percentage of prospective creators they are.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

And also, this is another change without a fact behind it.

We are under the impression that woman are underrepresented as creators, but we don't know what percentage of prospective creators they are.

Probably 50%.

[Frag]

Probably 50%.

No chance.

I'd be surprised if it was 10%.

[Rockman]

You can't change people's beliefs, some people need a lifetime to change some people never do. What can I possibly do to change anything about another person.

And I'm fairly certain that companies like Marvel and WB have strict sexual harassment policies, I highly doubt they condone discrimination based on gender either.

What we have is apparently is a massive problem at conventions.

And what reasonable solution is there for that really? I'm sure it is accepted that if you go representing marvel,dc, image .... then you conduct yourself like a professional. But obviously they have very little control over what these people do at these places, they can follow up with a reprimand on events like the Fowler incident but that's a he said she said type of thing so I doubt much will happen for it.

The fact is that by and large the behavior is viewed as unacceptable even in society at large. It still happens though, we obviously don't want it to happen but at some point you just have to accept that you can't change some people and once you've ran out of things you can change (companies enforces policies on SH, creators aren't drinking during conventions, etc....) and it's still happening I don't know what to tell you either than women should know that some men are dogs and they should never sleep with someone who promises them quid pro quo. And in general no one ever should try to reason with a drunk person.

[Rockman]

I think comic books are like wrestling, they appeal to boys by and large and as such that is a majority of the people seeking employ in the field.

[Frag]

I think comic books are like wrestling, they appeal to boys by and large and as such that is a majority of the people seeking employ in the field.

Yeah. I don't understand why it's bad that a majority of a hobby is guys.

I don't know if manga maybe changes those numbers, but when it comes to non-peso comics, men are an overwhelming majority.