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The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

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User avatar

Draco x

biny little tird

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:53 pm

fieldy snuts wrote:
It was a decent, fun read. While the Tommy Elliot reveal fell flat the Riddler twist was pretty cool


Ironically, Hush himself was a rehash of Bane in Knightfall by being this mysterious villain who knew Batman's identity and used his enemies to mentally and physically wear him down.
User avatar

Draco x

biny little tird

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:54 pm

MoneyMelon wrote:Where has the Penguin been in all of this? He's part of the old families of Gotham and he has an obsession with birds. I feel like he should be in the mix somewhere.


The Penguin was shown in Catwoman about to be killed by a Talon until she and her boyfriend showed up to save him. The Penguin then shot the Talon's head off when Catwoman and Spark talked him down.
User avatar

Draco x

biny little tird

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 13, 2012 8:59 pm

ElijahSnowFan wrote:I get confused about this shit right there, though: So in the New 52, "Hush" happened, because all of Batman's timeline stayed intact, right?

There is a Tommy Eliot and now, a person who claims to be
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Thomas Wayne, Jr.
? Both of whom know Bruce Wayne is Batman and launched a long-running scheme in Gotham without the World's Greatest Detective having a clue?

Again, I don't take this stuff nearly as seriously as some people might think. But to me, there's no reason to have Hush if you have the Owl, and vice versa.


I wouldn't say that as there are plenty of anti-Batman characters who have the same modus operandi, ranging from Bane, Owlman, the Wrath, Prometheus, Simon Hurt, Ra's Al Ghul, Talia, Catman, Anarky, the Red Hood as well as Hush.
User avatar

alaska1125

dINGO

Postby alaska1125 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:22 pm

I liked the nod to Morrison's Owlman. Plus, I don't know, isn't there another issue next month? Maybe some revelations? :smt102
User avatar

IvCNuB4

Staff Writer

Postby IvCNuB4 » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:34 pm

draco x wrote:
I am still confused as to how Thomas Wayne Jr. was conceived if it was indicated that Martha Wayne had a miscarriage? Did the Owls somehow fake his death from his family when he was conceived? Plus, how exactly did Thomas Wayne Jr. know about his family seeing as how he was born shortly before they were murdered? Did the Court Of Owls tell him about his family background at some point? To me this sounds like Hush all over again.


I haven't read this yet, but did they say that Martha miscarried with her second child (Thomas)? So maybe someone stole the fetus, froze it, and later resurrected him. :smt102


draco x wrote:
Which again adds to the confusion of one thing: if there is a Thomas Wayne Jr. in this world, does that mean that the Crime Syndicate counterpart no longer existst then? Does this also mean that Ultra Man, Super Woman, Johnny Quick and Power Ring got retconned as well? Another reason as to why the New 52 is so confusing.


There are still 50 other Earths we haven't really seen so maybe the Crime Syndicate still exists on one of them.
User avatar

Grayson

Outhouse Drafter

Postby Grayson » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:37 pm

I don't know. I have enjoyed this story so far but I was really disappointed with the reveal. Personally, I would have been more surprised if the Court of Owls had been killed by the Joker, who had infiltrated the group after the events of Detective Comics #1.
User avatar

Draco x

biny little tird

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:40 pm

I think it would have been better if Simon Hurt had been the mastermind behind the Court Of Owls rather than revealing that Bruce had an unknown evil brother. Besides it would have been a good way to introduce the character after he got buried alive by the Joker( It was so idiotic how they made him go out like a chump when he slipped on that banana peel).
User avatar

Draco x

biny little tird

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:44 pm

Sakie wrote:I don't know. I have enjoyed this story so far but I was really disappointed with the reveal. Personally, I would have been more surprised if the Court of Owls had been killed by the Joker, who had infiltrated the group after the events of Detective Comics #1.


I pretty much said the same thing on another thread ironically. However, it would get kind of old to have other characters keep getting nerfed and dumbed down by having them get punked by the Joker.
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:45 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
I haven't read this yet, but did they say that Martha miscarried with her second child (Thomas)? So maybe someone stole the fetus, froze it, and later resurrected him. :smt102




There are still 50 other Earths we haven't really seen so maybe the Crime Syndicate still exists on one of them.
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:46 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:
I haven't read this yet, but did they say that Martha miscarried with her second child (Thomas)? So maybe someone stole the fetus, froze it, and later resurrected him. :smt102




There are still 50 other Earths we haven't really seen so maybe the Crime Syndicate still exists on one of them.


Crisis on Earth-3 is supposedly Morrison's favorite story, so I doubt that the Crime Syndicate and E-3 are going away.
User avatar

Draco x

biny little tird

Postby Draco x » Wed Jun 13, 2012 11:37 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
Crisis on Earth-3 is supposedly Morrison's favorite story, so I doubt that the Crime Syndicate and E-3 are going away.


I personally wish that the New 52 would go away but we can't always get what we want unfortunately.
User avatar

chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:22 am

as for issue #10's big reveal, i like it, mainly b/c Snyder's certainly done his research, and has tied things together in a way that, while tweaking them as allowed by the DCnU reboot, still seems to make a sort of sense in the context of past DC continuity.

it's not like this is the first time there's ever been a
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Thomas Wayne, Jr.

pre-Crisis, it was revealed back in World's Finest in the 70s that there was such a character. from dcuguide.com:

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
The second son of Thomas and Martha Wayne, and the younger brother of Batman. As an infant, Thomas Jr. had suffered head injuries in a car accident, and had been confined to Willowood Asylum for life. Upon his escape, he was manipulated into becoming the assassin known as the "Boomerang Killer" until Batman learned of his existence and exposed the mastermind behind the killings. Later, Deadman took possession of Thomas' body to resume his career as an acrobat. Batman tracked down the ghost and demanded that he relinquish his hold on the demented man. When Deadman temporarily left the body, Thomas, Jr. saved his brother's life by taking a bullet for him. He died a hero.


note the
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Willowood Asylum
reference, which Snyder reuses here, tweaking the "origin" from car crash to premature birth, but leaving the rest and adding his own creepy twist with the Asylum's decline post-death of the Waynes. and again, he uses the "manipulated into becoming an assassin" angle again, although now weaking it into he was brought into the Court, which he then manipulated to basically turn himself into an assassin. and what better role fo him to fit into than as an Owl, as, has been noted here already,
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Thomas Wayne, Jr. is/was the other identity of Owlman on Morrison's Earth-2/the antimatter earth back in post-Crisis continuity, and as Owlman originally was created way back when in the 60s as the Batman analogue because owls were known predators of bats
, which again wraps right back into Snyder's mega-story.

so yeah, it's real soap-operaey...but it's been done in a way that Snyder has obviously put a lot of thought into it. he's cherry-picked bits and pieces of old continuity and tweaked and twisted them into something new (yet that still feels like "a remembering", as Snyder has Bats discuss in the issue) and enjoyable, which is exactly what a good serial-comic storyteller should be able to do. i think the soapy element is easily forgivable here because it's been so well-crafted. and it makes me that much happier that
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Dr. Hurt in Morrison's whole Black Glove/R.I.P. stuff didn't end up being Thomas, Jr.
, as i often saw theorized on the web. b/c i don't trust him to have made it make as much sense as Snyder seems to hve.
User avatar

chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:24 am

draco x wrote:I think it would have been better if Simon Hurt had been the mastermind behind the Court Of Owls rather than revealing that Bruce had an unknown evil brother. Besides it would have been a good way to introduce the character after he got buried alive by the Joker( It was so idiotic how they made him go out like a chump when he slipped on that banana peel).

ugh. even worse than your previous wish regarding the Joker being involved. Hurt is one of those characters who needs to be limbo'ed for the rest of ever.
User avatar

chap22

Rain Partier

Postby chap22 » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:28 am

ElijahSnowFan wrote:I get confused about this shit right there, though: So in the New 52, "Hush" happened, because all of Batman's timeline stayed intact, right?

There is a Tommy Eliot and now, a person who claims to be
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Thomas Wayne, Jr.
? Both of whom know Bruce Wayne is Batman and launched a long-running scheme in Gotham without the World's Greatest Detective having a clue?

Again, I don't take this stuff nearly as seriously as some people might think. But to me, there's no reason to have Hush if you have the Owl, and vice versa.

well, as i understood this issue,
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Thomas Jr.'s
scheme wasn't that long-running. he was content to be just another member of the Court, hand-picked to be their government front as Lincoln March, until he realized in issue 1 (or 2, whichever) that Bruce was actually Batman. that's when his side scheme began.

i think he and Hush can pretty easily co-exist in light of that.
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:35 am

draco x wrote:I think it would have been better if Simon Hurt had been the mastermind behind the Court Of Owls rather than revealing that Bruce had an unknown evil brother. Besides it would have been a good way to introduce the character after he got buried alive by the Joker( It was so idiotic how they made him go out like a chump when he slipped on that banana peel).


Morrison might not be done with Hurt, though. Wouldn't shock me one bit if he showed up in Batman Inc. one bit.

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