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The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Zechs » Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:52 am

chap22 wrote:ugh. even worse than your previous wish regarding the Joker being involved. Hurt is one of those characters who needs to be limbo'ed for the rest of ever.

Which is why his end was perfect.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby MrBlack » Thu Jun 14, 2012 12:38 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
Morrison might not be done with Hurt, though. Wouldn't shock me one bit if he showed up in Batman Inc. one bit.

Hurt served a very specific role in Morrison's Batman R.I.P./Final Crisis story. He was a tool or a vessel for the Hyper-Adapter that Darkseid poisoned the timeline with after he sent Batman back in time. That mega-story arc was wrapped up very neatly by the end of Morrison's run on Batman & Robin, and there is no need for him to bring Hurt back, especially considering that Morrison has moved onto a new storyline and villain. That does not preclude anyone else from bringing Hurt back, but I doubt Morrison will have anything to do with it.

It's actually a bit funny that you mention bringing Hurt back rather than Bruce's "unknown evil brother" given that is exactly what Hurt was thought to be at one point. He was even sent to Willowood Asylum by the Waynes once they found him in the modern era.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Jun 14, 2012 1:43 pm

MrBlack wrote:Hurt served a very specific role in Morrison's Batman R.I.P./Final Crisis story. He was a tool or a vessel for the Hyper-Adapter that Darkseid poisoned the timeline with after he sent Batman back in time. That mega-story arc was wrapped up very neatly by the end of Morrison's run on Batman & Robin, and there is no need for him to bring Hurt back, especially considering that Morrison has moved onto a new storyline and villain. That does not preclude anyone else from bringing Hurt back, but I doubt Morrison will have anything to do with it.

It's actually a bit funny that you mention bringing Hurt back rather than Bruce's "unknown evil brother" given that is exactly what Hurt was thought to be at one point. He was even sent to Willowood Asylum by the Waynes once they found him in the modern era.


I could see Hurt back as being used by the real big bad to control Talia, whoever that is.

You forget Morrison's Batman run is one complete storyline with several arcs, not a bunch of little storylines.
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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby MrBlack » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:10 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
I could see Hurt back as being used by the real big bad to control Talia, whoever that is.

You forget Morrison's Batman run is one complete storyline with several arcs, not a bunch of little storylines.

I'm not forgetting anything. I even mentioned the overarching storyline going through his entire Batman run, Final Crisis, Batman & Robin, and the Return of Bruce Wayne. Batman Inc. is certainly still a part of that storyline, but it's not one that needs Hurt's presence. He has fulfilled his purpose in the story and there is no reason to (literally) dig up his corpse at this point.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Zechs » Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:17 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
I could see Hurt back as being used by the real big bad to control Talia, whoever that is.

You forget Morrison's Batman run is one complete storyline with several arcs, not a bunch of little storylines.


Nah. That was the whole point of Hurt. He acted like something he wasn't. He was supposed to be this big bad of great evil. And that's the joke and one the Joker rubbed that fact in:

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He's no Hugo, Bane, Ra's, Predator, or Joker. He's a simpleton, a deuce. The only reason to bring him back at all would be his corpse given his powers were New God related.
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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Draco x » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:35 pm

Zechs wrote:
Nah. That was the whole point of Hurt. He acted like something he wasn't. He was supposed to be this big bad of great evil. And that's the joke and one the Joker rubbed that fact in:

Image

He's no Hugo, Bane, Ra's, Predator, or Joker. He's a simpleton, a deuce. The only reason to bring him back at all would be his corpse given his powers were New God related.


Even though Hurt was never my favorite Bat-villain personally, he could easily come back by having Thomas Wayne Jr., Hush or even Ra's Al Ghul dig his corpse and use him to stick it Batman and co. There are plenty of ways to bring the character back but it's only a question of whether or not anyone wants to use him.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Draco x » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:37 pm

MrBlack wrote:I'm not forgetting anything. I even mentioned the overarching storyline going through his entire Batman run, Final Crisis, Batman & Robin, and the Return of Bruce Wayne. Batman Inc. is certainly still a part of that storyline, but it's not one that needs Hurt's presence. He has fulfilled his purpose in the story and there is no reason to (literally) dig up his corpse at this point.


Funnily, I was thinking that they could have used Hurt as one of the main villains in the new Batman cartoon that's supposed to drop next year instead of Professor Pyg. The premise of the cartoon looks silly as hell but at least Hurt would actually have been a more interesting choice.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Draco x » Thu Jun 14, 2012 4:40 pm

MrBlack wrote:Hurt served a very specific role in Morrison's Batman R.I.P./Final Crisis story. He was a tool or a vessel for the Hyper-Adapter that Darkseid poisoned the timeline with after he sent Batman back in time. That mega-story arc was wrapped up very neatly by the end of Morrison's run on Batman & Robin, and there is no need for him to bring Hurt back, especially considering that Morrison has moved onto a new storyline and villain. That does not preclude anyone else from bringing Hurt back, but I doubt Morrison will have anything to do with it.

It's actually a bit funny that you mention bringing Hurt back rather than Bruce's "unknown evil brother" given that is exactly what Hurt was thought to be at one point. He was even sent to Willowood Asylum by the Waynes once they found him in the modern era.


Assuming Thomas Wayne Jr. survives I could see these two working together at some point. Thomas could easily find a way to dig up Hurt out of his grave and try to stick it to Bruce. However, the issue is whether or not anyone wants to bring back Simon Hurt or not.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:46 pm

MrBlack wrote:I'm not forgetting anything. I even mentioned the overarching storyline going through his entire Batman run, Final Crisis, Batman & Robin, and the Return of Bruce Wayne. Batman Inc. is certainly still a part of that storyline, but it's not one that needs Hurt's presence. He has fulfilled his purpose in the story and there is no reason to (literally) dig up his corpse at this point.


You're assuming the story "has moved onto a new storyline and villain," and there hasn't been somebody pulling the strings behind things all along in Morrison's run, which seems more likely.

Check this Morrison quote out.


"There's a doctor who's got some good lines in the original story Robin Dies At Dawn, and he's never named. I thought, "What if he's a bad guy?" That became Dr. Hurt. I thought, "Wow...there was a guy who had access to Batman's psychology for 10 days. That's my villain!" I also thought it was a way to sort of reinvigorate those old stories, as a service to DC, to sell some more of the older books and collections.

The minute I say who he is...it will stop people talking. I was trying to do a definitive Batman story. Batman's stories tend to pit Batman against a diabolical mastermind. I thought, "Who's the ultimate diabolical mastermind?" This is a story about Batman's Black Casebook which is all the mysterious cases, the ones that are supernatural or bizarre. So for me, this is the ultimate supernatural Batman story. There are clues, there are places in fact, where they actually state who's he up against in the story. But people don't want to accept the supernatural explanation. But yes: This is the story of how Batman cheats The Devil."

— Grant Morrison, "Batman: RIP Director's Commentary", Wizard #211 (May, 2009)


I'm somewhat confident that Morrison hasn't truly gotten to the real end of that story yet.
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"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
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Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:49 pm

Zechs wrote:
Nah. That was the whole point of Hurt. He acted like something he wasn't. He was supposed to be this big bad of great evil. And that's the joke and one the Joker rubbed that fact in:

Image

He's no Hugo, Bane, Ra's, Predator, or Joker. He's a simpleton, a deuce. The only reason to bring him back at all would be his corpse given his powers were New God related.


I'm not saying Hurt will be the Big Bad at the end of this. It's kind of obvious there. I'm just saying that his true "master" might have some other uses for him. Controlling Talia might be one of them.
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Zechs » Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:05 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
I'm not saying Hurt will be the Big Bad at the end of this. It's kind of obvious there. I'm just saying that his true "master" might have some other uses for him. Controlling Talia might be one of them.


Honestly, there's only three people who could be controlling Talia: Sensei, Ra's, or Nyssa.
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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Draco x » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:14 pm

Zechs wrote:
Honestly, there's only three people who could be controlling Talia: Sensei, Ra's, or Nyssa.


Isn't Nyssa dead though? I thought it was confirmed that Cassandra bumped her off when she was acting evil a few years ago?

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Draco x » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:15 pm

The Nacireman wrote:
I'm not saying Hurt will be the Big Bad at the end of this. It's kind of obvious there. I'm just saying that his true "master" might have some other uses for him. Controlling Talia might be one of them.


I assume you mean Darkseid?

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Draco x » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:21 pm

Does anyone remember that story some years ago when Bane thought that he and Bruce were brothers? Does anyone think it would have been better if Bruce's dad had been revealed as Bane's biological father instead of King Snake? That would be almost be more interesting than the my-younger-brother-who-I-never-knew-existed-after-a-miscarriage-having-the-same-modus-operandi-as-my-Crime-Syndicate-Of-America-counterpart. Again that's just my take but others here might feel differently.

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Re: The Court Of Owls Mastermind Is?

Postby Juan Cena » Thu Jun 14, 2012 8:59 pm

draco x wrote:
I assume you mean Darkseid?


I'd say Darkseid is a prime suspect when it comes to who really is behind Leviathan.

Of course Morrison could really be planning to have Batman fight The Devil, be it the real thing or in the guise of Barbatos.

Then again, "Barbatos" is the name of an actual demon in demonology. His name allegedly derives from the Latin barbatus which can mean "bearded", "old man", or "philosopher"

Gee, an old, bearded "demon" who does that sound like? :wink:
Image

"I have my heroes, but no one knows their names"
- Sons of the Desert

Strict31 wrote:I'm not sure that combining the nigh-uncontrollable power of LOLtron with the Nacireman is a good idea. Some years from now, when mankind is on the verge of extinction, we'll be able to look back and remember this moment, and say, "DANG."


http://www.shirtswithrandomtriangles.com/

Check out Christmas in Nacirema
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh619160960893481469&shareImp=true#!/stations/play/619160960893481469

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