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[LOLtron]

Porcelain38 sits down with OH user Dravgon to talk about the revelancy of WW2 heroes in comics today.


With the entire reboot of the DCU coming in September it's hard not to notice the lack of the WW2 superteam the JSA. While many fans of this beloved team are outraged, can the JSA really exisit in the modern DCU? If the JSA seems "dated" how can Marvel hero Captain America still be in the forefront of the Marvel U?

Today On The Hot Seat sits down and talks to OH user Dragvon about the use of WW2 aged heroes in the current comic industry.  




Porcelain38: DC has re-launched their entire universe with the glaring exception of the JSA. Many believe this is because of the dated feeling of the JSA. Is DC making a mistake in not bringing back the JSA?

Dragavon: DC is making a mistake in not bringing back the JSA because it was a decently selling title that was hampered by wrong writers and an unnecessary title expansion. In the hands of the right writer, a concept like the JSA works very well.

It's not the age of the older characters that's the problem; it's the way that they were used. Every piece of fantastic fiction that I have read has included an older wiser character that provides information and advice to the younger protagonist. However the key in these situations is that the protagonist is the younger person. DC's mistake, especially if they are trying to write to a younger audience might have been to make Alan Scott, Jay Garrick and Ted Grant the protagonists instead of the advisors.

Porcelain38: How long can an idea like the JSA stay around for? What will happen in 25 years from now when it gets to be the 100th anniversary of WW2?

Dragavon: The JSA can be a lasting title as long as it is more about legacy left by the previous heroes and the training of younger superheroes and less about the older superheroes. Every new writer to the series promised it would be about the legacy and the training but invariably went back to the old guard being the focus with the new characters being the supporting cast. If the new heroes are the focus, the fact that the older superheroes have been around for 75 years is not an issue that needs to come up regularly.

Porcelain38: How do you make the JSA in a modern time setting?

Dragavon: The best way that the JSA works in the modern setting is as an academy where the older heroes teach the younger legacy heroes. They pass on the wisdom and skill learned from experience. Additionally the older heroes should never be the solution to the villain of the week as they invariably are. Another issue where the big bad is defeated by Alan Scott or Jay Garrick is not something we ever need to see again.

Porcelain38: What about Captain America? Will he ever become dated?

Dragavon: It is not possible for Captain America to become dated. He doesn't just represent the soldiers who fought in World War 2, he represents the ideals of our nation and society, the best of us. Cap stands for every underdog who's been knocked down but gets back up again and every little guy that refuses to be pushed around by those bigger than him. It's not possible for a concept like that to get dated as long as people still believe in liberty and doing what's right.

Porcelain38: How is that Captain America is easily pushed to the front of Marvel's comics whereas the JSA is put on the back burner?

Dragavon: Captain America is quite a different concept than the JSA. One is a solo title where the main character is given room to grow as a character. JSA is an ensemble title where only a few characters are given any development or focus (and it is invariably someone like Alan or Jay). Additionally the villains in Captain America seem a lot more down to earth. The title does have some strange concepts like Arnim Zola, but in general it's Captain America versus extremists of one sort or another. The JSA on the other hand has a far more schizophrenic group of villains who sometimes have no justification. They have faced of against Nazis, time-travellers, immortals, legacy version of their old enemies, evil Gods and ex-members. There never seems to be any reason as to why the JSA is facing these foes and not another team.


Well fellow OH users, what do you think?
 

Written or Contributed by: Porcelain38


http://173.199.169.70/index.php/features/miscellaneous-features/14909-on-the-hot-seat-ww2-heroes-in-comics.html/

[Zenguru]

Drag makes a good point in comparing the villain situation between Cap and JSA.

I think the worst thing to happen to JSA was to split the book off into JSA All Stars. Instead of one group book that was sorta together, we had two group books that were all over the place.

After Johns left, the stories felt like they were losing cohesiveness. Johns had some good character development going on in his run. But when Willingham and Sturges took over, that flavor was absent from the mix.

I also remember JSA as being set up to train the new generation of heroes. Didn't see a whole lot of that going on. I saw new heroes join, but that was it. No training. No learning how to get along with their team. A lot of action, but little interaction.

[Punchy]

I think the problem with the JSA is that there are no legitimate reasons for them still to be active today. Captain America was frozen from the end of WW2 until 'recently'. The amount of time he was frozen is flexible, so he's always a man out of time and always in his prime. It's the same for Bucky, the amount of time he was kept in cold storage by the Russians is flexible.

The JSA should be like 80/90 by now, and while there are some half-assed explanations as to why they aren't ancient, they aren't clear (and ridiculous, something to do with Ragnarok?) and it's strange that they've allowed the big 3 of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott and Wildcat to age to a certain extent, but not naturally. I really think DC needs to either de-age them or kill them off, and have the JSA be the new generation exclusively. I know that sounds more like Infinity Inc, but really, it's the grown up sidekicks and kids like Jack Knight and Sand and Jade and Obsidian who are the most interesting characters now.

Another problem with the JSA is that the team just got too big, in the aftermath of Infinite Crisis, Johns introduced like 20 new characters, and tried to keep all the old characters around as well. This has led to the book either having no room for most of it's characters, and then splitting the franchise into two books, when it really isn't big enough for that at this point.

At the moment, I think the JSA need a bit of a rest, and when they return, I think it should not be as part of this new DCU, but in a new 'Earth 2' where they can be given the space they need, and Superman can return to his rightful place as the world's first superhuman.

[Amoebas]

The JSA should be like 80/90 by now, and while there are some half-assed explanations as to why they aren't ancient, they aren't clear (and ridiculous, something to do with Ragnarok?) and it's strange that they've allowed the big 3 of Jay Garrick, Alan Scott and Wildcat to age to a certain extent, but not naturally.

It wasn't Ragnorak, it was the energy absorbed from Ian Karkull. Jay, Scott & Ted also had the added benefits from the Speed Force, Starhearts and Nine Lives to keep them younger.

[Amoebas]

Some thoughts I have...

The world needs heroes, and never more so than during the dark days of WWII. The JSA had a purpose and it was good. But there's two histories here...

The real world - The JSA during their Golden Age, helped sell war bonds but they didn't see a whole lot of combat during the war itself. Cap, The Torch and Subby regularly punched Hitler, sunk subs and burned down plans in their books and especially ON THE COVERS. The JSA 'barked'. The (future) Invaders 'bit'.

Inside the comic's world - Under the pen of first Paul Levitz in the mid 70's, we find out (decades later) that the JSA did actually fight in the war. In and around the same time, Roy Thomas starts up the Invaders and firmly establishes them as WWII heroes (which he will do exponentially more with the JSA's All Star Squadron a few years later).

This said, as a HUGE fan of the JSA (they introduced me to DC), their efforts in the war really don't mean a whole lot. The spear of Destiny kept them from really taking the war to Europe and Japan so even though they finally fought in it, they didn't much with it. So - they don't need to be tied to it any longer!

Cap on the other hand does, but he gets the iceberg easy out as to why he's still spry. The other Timely heroes are only loosely associated to WWII and they likewise don't need to be tied the war.

With the new DCU, Superman is back to be 'The First'. This is a move I completely endorse, but it comes at a cost of the JSA. I don't like that they're gone but I understand why.

I also understand that the last time DC tried getting rid of the team (Ragnorak), they still found a way back. I suspect, in time, they will return, whether it be Earth 2 or as a secret group working in the shadows like they did on Smallville (and as Stormwatch is going to likely be).

Back to my two world thing...

Do WE, the comics readers need the JSA - yes.
Does the DCU Earth need the JSA in World War II - No.

[outsider]

The best way that the JSA works in the modern setting is as an academy where the older heroes teach the younger legacy heroes. They pass on the wisdom and skill learned from experience. Additionally the older heroes should never be the solution to the villain of the week as they invariably are. Another issue where the big bad is defeated by Alan Scott or Jay Garrick is not something we ever need to see again.

Damn skippy. If DC feels a need for those heroes to save the day, let's have an ongoing set in yesteryear.

I'd honestly be okay with all of the old guard taking a dirt nap or bringing back the Pre-Crisis alternate Earths.

[Johnny Smith]

I blame it all on Magog

[Chesscub]

The thing with Captain America is that he's a man out of time. Cap skipped forward a large number of years whereas teh JSA went the normal route, aging which makes it harder and harder to explain why they're still around. For god's sakes, Joan Garrick and Molly Scott are still alive through a silly retcon.

[mrorangesoda]

I agree with most of what Dragavon said and like Ameobas I have a feeling they'll come in through Stormwatch or some other agency they worked for instead of being "superheroes". They can still train young people with powers and maybe their non-superhero agency past can give them a focused antagonist instead of some random guys.

[Chesscub]

I agree with most of what Dragavon said and like Ameobas I have a feeling they'll come in through Stormwatch or some other agency they worked for instead of being "superheroes". They can still train young people with powers and maybe their non-superhero agency past can give them a focused antagonist instead of some random guys.

I'm really looking forward to Stormwatch.

[Zenguru]

I think DC should do a story where most of the old-timer JSA members die in a great battle. A battle that also takes out a lot of their outmoded villains. Then the JSA will be younger legacy characters shepherded by one, maybe two, old timers. Most likely Alan Scott and/or Jay Garrick. I would prefer Alan alone, though.