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OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:08 pm

McDarkseid wrote:
Ah yes, I was getting there. I remembered Jean Paul, then thought wait that's from Alpha Flight, then reconsidered, and was almost to the Valley.

I just felt like his time has come and gone. There are so many other newer supporting characters for Batman, and I just don't think Azrael has the staying power. Seems so '90s.


Half the point of the vaunted Batman Inc. is Grant Morrison bringing back a concept and characters from, what, the '50s, the '60s...

Yeah, I think there's room to bring back Jean Paul Valley.
Last edited by Herald on Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:08 pm

McDarkseid wrote:
Ah yes, I was getting there. I remembered Jean Paul, then thought wait that's from Alpha Flight, then reconsidered, and was almost to the Valley.

I just felt like his time has come and gone. There are so many other newer supporting characters for Batman, and I just don't think Azrael has the staying power. Seems so '90s.


The same could be said about Barbara Gordon returning as Batgirl and Barry Allen returning as Flash.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:09 pm

McDarkseid wrote:I can't remember exactly what JPV actually stands for anymore (jean paul something?), but I read those old comics with him in them a couple years ago when I bought up the stock of a dead comic shop and honestly, his story seemed done and over. He seems absolutely to be a character who had a time on the stage and that came to an end a long time ago.

Personally, I thought it to be an easily forgettable character.


The same could be said about his even more forgettable successor Michael Lane.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:12 pm

McDarkseid wrote:
Ah yes, I was getting there. I remembered Jean Paul, then thought wait that's from Alpha Flight, then reconsidered, and was almost to the Valley.

I just felt like his time has come and gone. There are so many other newer supporting characters for Batman, and I just don't think Azrael has the staying power. Seems so '90s.


I could easily say the same about Damian, Jason( Even though I like him as the Red Hood), Michael Lane or even that new Talon who is set to get his own series in the fall. I would take JPV, Selina, Dick, Tim, Barbara( As Oracle) over a lot of the new characters no one cares about in the long run.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:13 pm

draco x wrote:
The same could be said about his even more forgettable successor Michael Lane.


Yep, put just about anyone in that ugly, anachronistic, and ridiculous-looking costume and then call them Azrael (because no better name came to mind) and they would be instantly forgettable too. I agree.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Victorian Squid » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:13 pm

Herald wrote:
Half the point of the vaunted Batman Inc. is Grant Morrison bringing back a concept and characters from, what, the '50s, the '60s...

Yeah, I think there's room to bring back Jean Paul Valley.


Yeah....of course you do.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:14 pm

Herald wrote:
Half the point of the vaunted Batman Inc. is Grant Morrison bringing back a concept and characters from, what, the '50s, the '60s...

Yeah, I think there's room to bring back Jean Paul Valley.


If Didio weren't such a biased twit, that is what should have happened. JPV is way better than most of the bat characters they are forcing down our throats currently. Plus, as I said, Michael Lane sucked so badly that even DC doesn't acknowledge his existence after his series flopped.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Draco x » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:16 pm

McDarkseid wrote:
Yep, put just about anyone in that ugly, anachronistic, and ridiculous-looking costume and then call them Azrael (because no better name came to mind) and they would be instantly forgettable too. I agree.


If you mean that poor-man's Assassin's Creed get-up from Fabian Nicieza's sucky replacement character then we so agree. However, Quesada's design for the one true Azrael was kickass-I even like the Azbats costume much better.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:33 pm

McDarkseid wrote:
Yeah....of course you do.


"ANY character can shine, given good writing."

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby 3MJ » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:52 pm

If any character can shine with good writing why the fuck do you give a shit about which characters appear in your comics?

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:27 pm

Jubilee wrote:If any character can shine with good writing why the fuck do you give a shit about which characters appear in your comics?


Because good writing has given me a connection with certain characters.
And because BAD Writing -- yet another hallmark of Dan and the Gang -- is what got rid of them.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Herald » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:31 pm

draco x wrote:
So some people have said but the part where JPV is blatantly ignored in the bat-books looks suspect and the part where he reappeared as a Black Lantern zombie felt like a fuck-you to the fans who wanted him back. I believe that Denny had intened for JPV's fate at the end of his book to be left open for him to return. I remember someone saying that Denny O Neill was told by Didio that he wanted to kill off JPV originally and that he told him that he needed the character to disappear. As I said, Denny most likely wanted to leave an open door for JPV to return but Didio and co. had other ideas.


Indeed. Anytime a character "apparently dies", but no one ever found the body, he/she ain't dead...

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby FotoCub » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:53 pm

Herald, I appreciate your anger, but I think it's misplaced. I said emphatically that I hope Stephanie Brown returns, and simply wanted to comment on the reality of the economics of the situation. Why did Blue Beetle get a new series in the 52 instead of Stephanie Brown? Possibly because he had a two and a half year cooling off period (as his series ended in early 2009) and didn't JUST have a series that slipped sales the month before. Perhaps DC felt his appearances on television would help his series, something Stephanie has not yet had the benefit of (a factor until last year DC Editorial has ZERO control over). Clearly, they were wrong. But the reality is, Blue Beetle is going to be cancelled, most certainly before it's 16th issue. And I am more sure that he will not be given another series for many, many MANY years now. Will DC editorial call him 'toxic' behind closed doors (which is the only place Stephanie has ever reportedly been referred to that way)? Very likely. Will Stephanie get another chance in the DCU within 2 and a half years (as it's only been 1 now) of her last series? Also very likely, due to the outspokenness of fans like the original poster. All I'm saying is THAT chance better launch well. I'll do my part for sure, if only to see a great many people I know happy.

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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby Timbales » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:55 pm

Stephanie Brown would be more interesting to me if she was not related to the Batman family at all, and if she wasn't the daughter of a villain. It's a played out cliche. I'd be more interested in ready a book where she was a somewhat amoral daughter of a virtuous hero.
However, Liefeld is an enigma wrapped in a pouch-filled, muscular, footless conundrum.
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Re: OP/ED: The Toxicity of Stephanie Brown

Postby GHERU » Fri Jul 20, 2012 6:57 pm

Timbales wrote:I am seeing that comic book fans are a lot like music fans.

They seem to lock onto the music/comics of their mid to late teens and view that as "when it was good".

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