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Tony Daniel Quits Twitter After Gender Politics Argument

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S.F. Jude Terror

OMCTO

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:03 pm

Oftentimes, feminists have a good point about comics. For instance, the entire body of work of Greg Land is an affront to civil rights. This instance seems like its pushing it, but what do I know? What I want to know is what the reasoning was behind Daniel quitting Twitter.
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Zechs

Outhouse Editor

Postby Zechs » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:05 pm

Thunderstorm wrote:I'd hate to be one of those people that buy into this feminist stuff. It must be a kind of Hell constantly worrying if a word or phrase has been labeled offensive and stressing about that.


Go to Scans Daily. There are several words outlawed there because they are labeled "offensive". See the Poochie incident.
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Kat_Rocha

Whale Castrato

Postby Kat_Rocha » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:16 pm

Regardless of how misogynistic I believe DC has become, the term "friend zoning" definitely does not come under that heading. I'm not even sure HOW it is misogynistic. It means the girl "just wants to be friends" or never wants to go past friends. Yes, some girls are cock teases and use this position to get things from guys... but that's still not misogynistic. Just underhanded.

-Kat
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Rockman

Rain Partier

Postby Rockman » Sat Jun 08, 2013 2:49 pm

grrr
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Thunderstorm

Not a Kardashian

Postby Thunderstorm » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:01 pm

Zechs wrote:
Go to Scans Daily. There are several words outlawed there because they are labeled "offensive". See the Poochie incident.


Outlawed words. Doesn't surprise me. There are people who seem to literally wait for something to offend them.
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john lewis hawk

Founder of The Outhouse

Postby john lewis hawk » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:28 pm

"Friendzoned" is a misogynistic word because it's not a woman saying that a guy but a guy saying that about a woman to his friends. In the guy's mind, he's thinking that because he's friendly and nice to a woman, he's going to get laid. He's justify sex by saying that because he was nice and did things for a woman that he is supposed to get something sexual out of it.

That said, it's not a big deal as there are woman who manipulate and it really depends on the guy's intentions. We know Superman's a good guy so we know that he just wants a relationship.

All that said, with that little back-and-forth, it's pretty clear Tony Daniel's an ass.
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HNutz

Silly French Man

Postby HNutz » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:31 pm

This is still fucking insane.

It's not like he used this "offensive" term in an interview or something. Jimmy Olsen, a character, used a term prevalent in pop culture. How is this a problem but Ennis can have someone say "nigga, nigga, nigga?"

ALSO... how will the feminists react to "Jimmi Olsen" in Man of Steel (if that's still happening)?
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HNutz

Silly French Man

Postby HNutz » Sat Jun 08, 2013 3:42 pm

Zechs wrote:
Go to Scans Daily. There are several words outlawed there because they are labeled "offensive". See the Poochie incident.


That's insane, too.

It's PAINFULLY obviouss that the "mods" would be perfectly okay if the same thing was said about, say, Flash Thompson. It's obvious he wasn't advocating "fridging" or murder but how the character might vanish if/when she leaves the book.
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LoatheMe

expert hobo killer

Postby LoatheMe » Sat Jun 08, 2013 4:14 pm

john lewis hawk wrote:"Friendzoned" is a misogynistic word because it's not a woman saying that a guy but a guy saying that about a woman to his friends. In the guy's mind, he's thinking that because he's friendly and nice to a woman, he's going to get laid. He's justify sex by saying that because he was nice and did things for a woman that he is supposed to get something sexual out of it.


except the term does not exclusively refer to sex and you don't speak for all males and their usage of the term. if that's your personal mental process on the term, that makes you the "misogynist" (how does wanting to have sex with a woman translate into hating women by the way?), not the term itself.
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alaska1125

dINGO

Postby alaska1125 » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:11 pm

Again, a phoney manufactured issue to drive ridiculous back and forths in universities and internet forums. I suppose we must be running out of real issues to be outraged about if it's down to the "friendzone". :roll:
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john lewis hawk

Founder of The Outhouse

Postby john lewis hawk » Sat Jun 08, 2013 5:57 pm

LoatheMe wrote:
except the term does not exclusively refer to sex and you don't speak for all males and their usage of the term. if that's your personal mental process on the term, that makes you the "misogynist" (how does wanting to have sex with a woman translate into hating women by the way?), not the term itself.

It doesn't refer to sex but sex is the genesis of the word. You can certainly make the argument that it's not misogynistic by the various ways that people use it but,at its root, it's a misogynistic word. Just like the N-word is a racist term but you hear people using it and variations of that word.

Furthermore, misogyny is not just the hatred of women. It applies to distrust or dislike of women too.

And my personal mental process is that of devil's advocate.
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Keb

<( ' . ' )>

Postby Keb » Sat Jun 08, 2013 6:04 pm

Victorian Squid wrote:Every time I try to wrap my head around this one my brain refuses to comply and responds with erratic fury, like an angry flamingo.

This is how I feel about New Age Online Feminism.

One thing I think contributes to this is that people should be weary about complaining about their relationship issues to single friends, especially single and looking friends.

One of my mom's friends constantly complains about her husband to my mom. When my dad died, it made my mom feel worse. Like seriously, who needs to hear about how dense someone's husband is when their own just died? I think people are just really inconsiderate and don't take into account the emotional/psychological well-being of their own friends.

Had a female friend for YEARS who I was often friend zoned by. She always always always complained about her boyfriends to me. Every time, I'd be like "Okay, I can treat her better. I am way better than these dudes." One time I finally told her to leave her boyfriend (he was abusive) and her idiot boyfriend actually threatened me. Tough guy knew I was away at school. I would have fuckin' bodied him if he brought his bullshit to my face. Dude has a life-long membership at Club Newton anyway. So I was like "Okay fuck that chick." I walked. A while later she's all back and apologizing about how she treated me and she's got a new boyfriend who used to be her best friend etc. and she's complaining about this guy to me. She's making him out to be some insensitive prick bad guy jerk who doesn't care about her and is unable to be intimate etc. So then one day I actually got to meet the guy. He came to drop off some tools I lent to her for her new apartment. So we were chatting and I was like "Hey, this dude is actually pretty cool."

And then I realized it wasn't actually him that was the problem but her. She would always be very unhappy with who she was dating and that if I was going to date her, I would end up being that guy. So finally one I just told her that she needed to work on herself before anyone else and that she should stop bringing her boyfriend shit to me because I didn't want to hear it. I stopped hearing from her after that.
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Arion

Twenty-Something

Postby Arion » Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:34 pm

HNutz wrote:This is still fucking insane.

It's not like he used this "offensive" term in an interview or something. Jimmy Olsen, a character, used a term prevalent in pop culture. How is this a problem but Ennis can have someone say "nigga, nigga, nigga?"

ALSO... how will the feminists react to "Jimmi Olsen" in Man of Steel (if that's still happening)?


Jimmy Olsen will actually be a transvestite in Man of Steel, like in some of those crazy 60s stories...
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Anonymous

FACEBOOKTron

Postby Anonymous » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:39 pm

It's sad that so many men react with such hostility toward issues involving women's equality. There is too often an immediate dismissal of an issue at hand without even once considering the other parties' feelings. With this particular issue, it isn't just one woman, nor is it just an Internet issue for "ridiculous" feminists but an issue that many women and men are strongly speaking out against. This is not something that was created by women to bash men about but an issue created by insecure guys out there to refer to their "condition" of "entitlement" to a woman's body.

These men, whether teenagers or young adults, are indeed males who have befriended a woman specifically thinking that because he is a "nice guy" she'll put out and are angered when she doesn't. The term "friend zoned" is also used when a guy has been "let down" by a female friend and his male friend is putting down the girl who did it - instead of simply saying something positive, such as, "that bites, man, I feel for you, but you'll find someone else - besides, she may be right... You guys are tight, you wouldn't want to chance wrecking it," it goes like, "that bitch just friend zoned you. You're not going to let it slide are you?" Or, " you were even there for her when her sister died! She *hugged* you! She sent out the signals! She sooo friend zoned you!"

In general, the term is being used by dejected males who then proceed to very vocally bash the object of affection. Websites are being created by these males who gather their friends or strangers who agree with them to "call out" and put down these women for not having sex with them. It isn't just a crush or falling in love and then they're hurt, it's specifically about these guys believing they're entitled to the woman's body because they were nice to her and "understanding."

Because these guys "allowed" the women their shoulder to cry on, or to do something else "emasculating," such as telling the female her hair looked nice, they *expect* that the female will f--- them. Once the male has been rejected, they've been "friend zoned", which is as almost as bad, if not worse, than being murdered.

Because of today's technology what might have been an isolated incident has spread to a "movement" by similar minded guys. What many men and women are trying to do to combat this is to educate that this type of thinking is wrong, and that a woman is not property. The reason why it is so misogynistic is because it is directly focused on women. Perhaps there might be a male who is gay who uses this now growing terminology, but the origin is directed to the heterosexual female by the heterosexual male.

In the comic referenced, CLARK KENT said this to Jimmy. Even as sexist as Superman has been written in the past, he would never ever have suggested that a guy was owed sex by a woman.

In the series of tweets, which aren't all shown in the article above, a reader, who happened to be female, expressed disdain to Daniel about this term. She was rudely dismissed. Someone stepped in and was trying to assist in conflict-resolution by asking Mr. Daniel to listen to this woman and to emphasize the misogyny involved in the term, but throughout it, both concerned parties were rudely dismissed before being blocked. (By the way, the sarcastic comments about Daniel's writing ability were only shared on the Tumblr devoted to Tony Daniel and not toward Daniel himself. )

What's also troubling about this incident is that Daniel is representing DC. Even "outside" the company, he is still very much representing the company where he works. This type of unprofessionalism is consistent throughout DC, which says much about the company and those who are quick to defend the offending parties.

Even if Daniel was incited to react in a hostile matter, being angered by certain comments, he shouldn't have acted on that. He could have tried to see what was wrong with the term, or at least why their was strong emotion against it, or at most, simply have answered with lip service, a "thank you for your concern; it's something to think about," if not just simply, "I disagree and I will not discuss it further; thank you for your understanding."

Whether or not you agree that this is a serious issue that is at least worthy of further thought and pondering, or acknowledge and accept that there are many hurt by this terminology, Daniel acted in an unprofessional manner and the continued unprofessionalism of some at DC should not be tolerated... Especially when readers and fans are paying customers of their product.

As for me, growing up as a *legitimate* "nice guy" I was disappointed and hurt at times to be rejected by someone I had romantic feelings toward but I got over it. If there was anger, it faded, and I never thought I should literally create havoc for the object of my feelings, and I certainly never felt I was owed anything. In addition, I look back on the times where "it would wreck the friendship" as times I'm now grateful for, as indeed it would have wrecked things - a deep emotional relationship with someone can be rewarding without romantic love or sex. It is disturbing then that young men are now creating such relationships as opportunities to be "owed" a woman's body and that there are those who believe this way of thought is not something to be concerned about.
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Punchy

Staff Writer

Postby Punchy » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:45 pm

Jimmy said it to Clark, not the other way around,

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