The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **Anonymous62** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:50 pm

Doc Jon wrote:I think there are ways to update a character without them all becoming dark and brooding. Sadly, I think the idea that these are all pitches for movies has made them take the Dark KNight path with everything.

The sad thing is that TDKR was set outside DC continuity and those who know comics history know that Batman is not dark or brooding. He's as likely to laugh or crack a joke as most DC characters. The current version is a perversion and not the real character.

by **habitual** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:53 pm

Johnny O wrote:The sad thing is that TDKR was set outside DC continuity and those who know comics history know that Batman is not dark or brooding. He's as likely to laugh or crack a joke as most DC characters. The current version is a perversion and not the real character.

No, Batman has always been a noir character.

Hab

by **Anonymous62** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:59 pm

habitual wrote:No, Batman has always been a noir character.
Hab

I've always liked you, hab. Noir is his type. I'm talking his personality. He was never this grim and humorless and I have many pre TDKR reprints where he laughs or cracks a joke.

by **Doc Jon** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:01 pm

Johnny O wrote:The sad thing is that TDKR was set outside DC continuity and those who know comics history know that Batman is not dark or brooding. He's as likely to laugh or crack a joke as most DC characters. The current version is a perversion and not the real character.

I was actually talking about the success of the 2nd Nolan film.

Which is of course based on Miller's Batman (as pretty much all Batamn stories since DKR have been), so that's not really far off.

I loved Miller's take on Batman, but there was a reason for it. That was the character at the end of his career, so it made sense. I hate how he suddenly became that character in the DCU and DCnU.

by **habitual** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:06 pm

Johnny O wrote:I've always liked you, hab. Noir is his type. I'm talking his personality. He was never this grim and humorless and I have many pre TDKR reprints where he laughs or cracks a joke.

Yes, but, if you're a writer and you're working with a noir character, you're going to gear it more to a Nolan type Batman than what you saw in the early 80's.

Hab

by **Cat-Scratch** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:06 pm

chap22 wrote:and Sakie said it well, but i'll just add one more point and be done:

you can call it naive or plain or innocent or childlike or anachronistic or whatever you want to call it to try to play it off as something that doesn't work, but the real heart of the Shazam/Marvel Family concept is that it has been the one property that has throughout the decades maintained the sense of joy that you would think HAS to come with all of a sudden having your ultimate wish fulfilled. now that every hero has to have some kind of tragic backstory (which Billy has actually ALWAYS had) and "realistic" snarky attitude, it was nice to still have 1 hero who did the right thing because it's right and enjoyed doing it. it made him even more unique. even in this opening episode, long before Billy ever meets the wizard, you can tell that Johns has already sucked that sense of joy out of this concept, sacrificing it on the altar of "modern realism" to try and appease the mythical god of "new readers". and it's unnecessary.

Chap...

You and me on this one. :-D

by **Anonymous62** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:16 pm

habitual wrote:Yes, but, if you're a writer and you're working with a noir character, you're going to gear it more to a Nolan type Batman than what you saw in the early 80's. Hab

This is the exact opposite of what said in your last post where you claimed he's always been as grim and humorless as he was in TDKR and I never mentioned any films so your post doesn't really make sense.

by **sdsichero** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:26 pm

habitual wrote:
Yes, but, if you're a writer and you're working with a noir character, you're going to gear it more to a Nolan type Batman than what you saw in the early 80's.

Hab

I'm not sure about that. For a good portion of his comic life, though he had roots in noir, he did nod toward the more pulpish roots of noir. I grew up reading the encyclopedia of Batman that was in my local library before really reading any of his comic books. Also saw him on TV (cartoons moreso than the live action). He was more pulp adventure in those, often colored by what was popular at the tspy movies, family-friendly, etc). Were the folks that wrote him non-hardboiled not writers?

by **habitual** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 1:33 pm

Johnny O wrote:This is the exact opposite of what said in your last post where you claimed he's always been as grim and humorless as he was in TDKR and I never mentioned any films so your post doesn't really make sense.

Where did I say he was grim and humorless? Some writers have geared him towards younger age groups that aren't going to get noir characterization.

I said he was a noir character, that's it.

You said the current incarnation was a perversion, which it really isn't.

Hab

by **IvCNuB4** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 2:53 pm

Sitebreaker wrote:
as soon as i saw the first post, i knew you'd post something trying to "help make dc look good"

Yup. And I figured that you would soon be riding my ass about it :lol:

by **Herald** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:21 pm

Sitebreaker wrote:
as soon as i saw the first post, i knew you'd post something trying to "help make dc look good"

IvC is a professional DiDio sycophant.
He's got the heavily encrusted brown nose to prove it.
Of course he's going to defend DC at EVERY turn.

by **IvCNuB4** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:25 pm

And you are my Evil Universe Twin.
I'll bet you have a Beard of Evil, don't you ?

(see what I did there?)

by **Herald** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:26 pm

BlueStreak wrote:
Agreed. The decision to push the creepy as fuck Atom Smasher/Stargirl relationship was all sorts of bizarre.

And the fact that it was Geoff "I based Stargirl on my dead sister!! :-D

" Johns pushing the creepy Atom Smasher/Stargirl relationship makes it light-years more problematic.

by **Herald** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 3:29 pm

IvCNuB4 wrote:And you are my Evil Universe Twin.
I'll bet you have a Beard of Evil, don't you ?

YOU are backing the evil stuff like Darker and Edgier Billy Batson.
Therefore, YOU are the Evil Twin.

I may have to start calling you "Negaduck"! :wink:

by **leechjudd** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 8:59 pm

Before, I would probably just say "wait til we get more issues" or "In Geoff I trust" but ever since Sinestro Corps War, geoff's writing been declining in a rapid pace. Gone are the dense storytelling with great characterization(JSA, flash). Now, it is all decompressed storytelling with big moments that will leave you empty(still don't see the reason why batman took off his cowl and showed green lantern hi secret identity). What was the point of the first 6 issues of justice league?
anyway, I'm loving Gary Franks' art even if I'm not sure about SHazam's costume. I'm still hoping taht Geoff will pull everything off, I'm still a fan that's why I'm complaining otherwise I won't say anything and just drop all his books and move on