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Uncanny X-Force #18

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e_galston
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby e_galston » Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:16 am

Holland Oats wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Remember, though.. Archangel had become a completely seperate entity within Warren. Very Phoenix-ian. But Warren's body had undergone the transformation into the metallic wings years ago. That was a done deal. I don't know why anyone would expect his real wings to return just because the Archangel being inside him was killed.

As for Remender's quote from CBR.. I can see that. In a way, Warren is dead, sure. With his memory completely gone, he's no longer the same person. It should be interesting to see where they go from here with him. It's basically a clean slate. As long as Remender gets to continue his story, I trust him fully. It's only when other people get their hands on him that I worry, mainly for what I said earlier.. Warren has been horrible mistreated as a character throughout the years, until recently.


[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
well from the time that Yost/Kyle brought back the metal wings, he was able to switch between the feather ones and the metallic ones. He's lost the metal wings before too.. so its not that far of a stretch that he could have had the feather wings again with the archangel aspect dead.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby guitarsmashley » Thu Dec 15, 2011 1:11 am

Holland Oats wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
Also.. what happened with Kid Apocalypse? At first I thought he died, but then they took his body with them, so I guess not.

Does he join Logan's school? Go back into The World?


Pretty sure fantomex tells weapons plus to take him back to the world.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby doombug » Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:57 am

God I can't wait to pick up the hardcover of this story and read it in one sitting. 8)
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Timbales » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:12 am

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
I couldn't help but wonder is Psylocke's 'life in a moment' had something to do with Warren's rebirth with no memory.
However, Liefeld is an enigma wrapped in a pouch-filled, muscular, footless conundrum.
Written or Contributed by ThanosCopter

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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Punchy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:34 am

Did this issue really need a polybag? I mean, nobody actually died, unless you count an alternate reality Sunfire, and who gives a fuck about Sunfire? But then I suppose Archangel not dying is a bigger surprise than it would be if he had, it seemed so obvious that he would snuff it. This issue was a fitting end to one of the best story arcs of the year, so many great moments, I loved Fantomex’s fight with Archangel, and then the revelation/return of the original Apocalypse/Genesis. Did he die? I hope not, he could make an interesting addition to the team, an idealistic young kid with the powers of Apocalypse using them to fight for good. Of course he’s probably dead. The dream sequence with Angel and Betsy living out their days together was actually very emotional, it kind of reminded me on the ‘Sideways Universe’ in LOST, but on a much smaller scale. It was a good move too to have that scene illustrated by a different artist, Esad Ribic gave it a really ethereal quality. I do wonder what the future holds for Warren Worthington III now though, is his memory completely gone? It’s good that we only have to wait a week for #19, I want to know what’s next right away. Oh yeah, and how great was it that X-Force’s biggest characters in Wolverine & Deadpool were out of commission for this entire issue? Maybe that’s what the polybag was for, so morons wouldn’t know there was no Deadpool and therefore would still buy it!

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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Chris » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:07 pm

e_galston wrote:
[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
well from the time that Yost/Kyle brought back the metal wings, he was able to switch between the feather ones and the metallic ones. He's lost the metal wings before too.. so its not that far of a stretch that he could have had the feather wings again with the archangel aspect dead.


According to that Kyle/Yost story, though, even the feather wings were metallic. IIRC, they checked his DNA or something along those lines and it was made up of the same elements. He was just able to change the appearance of them is all.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Chris » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:09 pm

Punchy wrote:Did this issue really need a polybag? I mean, nobody actually died, unless you count an alternate reality Sunfire, and who gives a fuck about Sunfire? But then I suppose Archangel not dying is a bigger surprise than it would be if he had, it seemed so obvious that he would snuff it. This issue was a fitting end to one of the best story arcs of the year, so many great moments, I loved Fantomex’s fight with Archangel, and then the revelation/return of the original Apocalypse/Genesis. Did he die? I hope not, he could make an interesting addition to the team, an idealistic young kid with the powers of Apocalypse using them to fight for good. Of course he’s probably dead. The dream sequence with Angel and Betsy living out their days together was actually very emotional, it kind of reminded me on the ‘Sideways Universe’ in LOST, but on a much smaller scale. It was a good move too to have that scene illustrated by a different artist, Esad Ribic gave it a really ethereal quality. I do wonder what the future holds for Warren Worthington III now though, is his memory completely gone? It’s good that we only have to wait a week for #19, I want to know what’s next right away. Oh yeah, and how great was it that X-Force’s biggest characters in Wolverine & Deadpool were out of commission for this entire issue? Maybe that’s what the polybag was for, so morons wouldn’t know there was no Deadpool and therefore would still buy it!


But he did die. For all intents and purposes, Archangel is dead. Warren is dead. Remender even said, the person who came out of the rubble was not Warren. He has no memories, he was completely reborn. He's a blank slate, and the repercussions of that may be even worse than death on Betsy and others who loved Warren.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Grayson » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:09 pm

Punchy wrote:I mean, nobody actually died, unless you count an alternate reality Sunfire, and who gives a fuck about Sunfire?


Having read the Age of Apocalypse when I was a kid, I can honestly tell you that I care about AoA Sunfire. He was a more emotionally complex and interesting character than his 616 counterpart has ever been. I really hope that he is not truly dead and that he surfaces again either in the new AoA on-going or perhaps, having been presumed dead and abandoned, resurfaces in the 616 universe to join AoA Nightcrawler on X-Force.

This issue was a fitting end to one of the best story arcs of the year, so many great moments, I loved Fantomex’s fight with Archangel, and then the revelation/return of the original Apocalypse/Genesis. Did he die? I hope not, he could make an interesting addition to the team, an idealistic young kid with the powers of Apocalypse using them to fight for good. Of course he’s probably dead.


When Fantomex saved Psylocke and took her aboard EVA there was some quick banter between Fantomex and Ultimaton where it was indicated that the "kid" was on board and secure. I would assume the kid in question is Evan/Genesis and that he is alive.

The dream sequence with Angel and Betsy living out their days together was actually very emotional, it kind of reminded me on the ‘Sideways Universe’ in LOST, but on a much smaller scale. It was a good move too to have that scene illustrated by a different artist, Esad Ribic gave it a really ethereal quality.


I agree, it was a very touching and wonderfully emotional scene. It was clear that Warren was never actually in control of himself during this story but he was forced to pay the ultimate price. It was wonderful that Betsy could give him a lifetime's worth of happiness in his final moments but what is truly tragic about that scene is that Betsy experienced those moments too.

Oh yeah, and how great was it that X-Force’s biggest characters in Wolverine & Deadpool were out of commission for this entire issue? Maybe that’s what the polybag was for, so morons wouldn’t know there was no Deadpool and therefore would still buy it!


I am not the the point where Deadpool bothers me, yet, but I have never been a huge fan of Wolverine, so having an issue of this title minus him was a huge bonus for me.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Punchy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:10 pm

Holland Oats wrote:
But he did die. For all intents and purposes, Archangel is dead. Warren is dead. Remender even said, the person who came out of the rubble was not Warren. He has no memories, he was completely reborn. He's a blank slate, and the repercussions of that may be even worse than death on Betsy and others who loved Warren.


None of that was apparent in this issue, I haven't read any interviews with Remender.

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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Chris » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:17 pm

Punchy wrote:
None of that was apparent in this issue, I haven't read any interviews with Remender.


What wasn't apparent about the last line of the issue being "Who are you?"
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Chris » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:18 pm

He was stabbed in the heart. He died.

He was reborn because he was stabbed by the Life Seed. And the last page shows he lost his memory.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Punchy » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:33 pm

Holland Oats wrote:
What wasn't apparent about the last line of the issue being "Who are you?"


Just because he doesn't know who Psylocke is doesn't necessarily mean he's forgotten everything, he hasn't know her for his entire life.

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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Chris » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:47 pm

Punchy wrote:
Just because he doesn't know who Psylocke is doesn't necessarily mean he's forgotten everything, he hasn't know her for his entire life.


http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page ... e&id=35905

The interview. Read it, it's good.

Warren died. We knew we wanted this storyline to end with a character death, but let's face it, character deaths are just becoming flat. No matter how well they're written or what kind of emotional punch they have, we've just seen too many characters die. I wanted Warren to die, and Jody LeHeup, my old editor and a huge part of this year's success, also wanted Warren to die, but we didn't want it to be just another death. It was workshopped with the X-teams and everyone fell in love with this version of Warren's death.

I really fell in love with the idea that Betsy says good bye to Warren and watches him die. She feels his mind dissipate from his body. She's then pulled away from his dead body with the Life Seed stuck in it. And at the very end, after you get over that emotional beat and you see her talking with Jean, here comes Warren stumbling out into the snow! Only, it's bittersweet as he has no memory, no trace of the man he was. He's an all-new being.

Our big question now is, what is he? What is this thing that looks like Warren and has these feathery, angelic wings? It's definitely not Warren. There isn't a trace of him or Archangel left. A Celestial Life Seed is something Celestials plant on a dead planet to give new life to the entire planet. Now, we've just shoved one into Warren Worthington and it erased whatever was there, but it built something new. He's essentially a blank slate. I think that really twists the knife in Betsy's stomach more than anything else I could cook up.
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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby BubbaKanoosh » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:04 pm

Like Spock in The Search for Spock

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Re: Uncanny X-Force #18

Postby Crump » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:09 pm

Yeah, I'm really curious who or what the NuWarren is. I think the "He's an amnesiac now!" route is well-tread, but I know Remender is going to do something great with it. This run has been incredible.
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