The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

by **chap22** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:08 pm

nietoperz wrote:Chappy, I don't understand why you'd buy Titans - I mean all you're doing is paying Winnick to maul characters you love.

it's a sick, sick compulsion...you put Dick, Wally, and Donna in a book together and i physically can not turn away, no matter how bad it is (and it is AWFUL so far). it's one of those things where i feel like i'm damned if i do, damned if i don't...i'm scared if this book fails, it will be FOREVER before DC tries again, and i really want this team to have an ongoing book. i just wish that i could enjoy the one they have now.

i'd kill for DC to just shunt Winick over to something else and hand this book over to Fabian.

by **nietoperz** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:10 pm

chap22 wrote:i'd kill for DC to just shunt Winick over to something else and hand this book over to Fabian.

DC need to give Nicieza an ongoing, they really do.

by **chap22** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:12 pm

nietoperz wrote:DC need to give Nicieza an ongoing, they really do.

you know that i couldn't agree more.

by **john lewis hawk** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:12 pm

nietoperz wrote:DC need to give Nicieza an ongoing, they really do.

And me too. Preferably, Aquaman.

by **Keb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:13 pm

chap22 wrote:SALVATION RUN 7 -- Christ, i might as well just go to New York, hand Didio my 2.99, let him kick me in the junk, and call it even
TITANS 3 -- ditto...

Are you some sort of sick completist or something?

Remember: you tell DC what titles you like by buying them. If you don't like a title, and you buy it, you're telling DC you like it, and are therefore wasting your time. Same goes for Marvel, and Indie publishers too.

Stop before it gets out of hand!

by **chap22** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:20 pm

Keb wrote:Are you some sort of sick completist or something?

Remember: you tell DC what titles you like by buying them. If you don't like a title, and you buy it, you're telling DC you like it, and are therefore wasting your time. Same goes for Marvel, and Indie publishers too.

Stop before it gets out of hand!

see above. for certain characters and certain combinations, i just can't do it.

i can drop something like JLA or Batman or FF or Avengers if the creative team is crappy b/c i know those books will survive to see better days. with this batch of Titans, i don't know that. i HOPE that, and so i keep buying out of love for the characters and hope that eventually Winick (or whoever) gets replaced or gets it right, even if all appearances are to the contrary.

and with Salvation Run, since it's a mini, i'm just finishing out the string. i enjoyed it for the first 4 or 5 issues before it completely jumped the shark, so i'm willing to just absorb that hit.

by **Keb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:29 pm

chap22 wrote:i can drop something like JLA or Batman or FF or Avengers if the creative team is crappy b/c i know those books will survive to see better days. with this batch of Titans, i don't know that. i HOPE that, and so i keep buying out of love for the characters and hope that eventually Winick (or whoever) gets replaced or gets it right, even if all appearances are to the contrary.

See, this is where I think you should maybe start downloading the issue, or reading spoilers or wikipedia for it. If it gets to that point, then it's really not worth your money. You should pick up something new (and preferably indie to say "screw you DC") just to make a statement. I know it's hard to get out of that mindset, but it'll be one of the best things you've ever done.

by **chap22** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:35 pm

Keb wrote:See, this is where I think you should maybe start downloading the issue, or reading spoilers or wikipedia for it. If it gets to that point, then it's really not worth your money. You should pick up something new (and preferably indie to say "screw you DC") just to make a statement. I know it's hard to get out of that mindset, but it'll be one of the best things you've ever done.

not really. b/c truthfully, i'd almost rather read a bad superhero book than a good indie book. i just don't get the sensibility of most "indie" creators.

and i'm not downloading b/c i hate reading comics on a computer. wiki is unreliable. and the way i look at it, i LIKE most of the stuff i buy, with one or two glaring exceptions (it just so happens that both the ongoings and the current mini that i buy and regularly are disappointed by all come out this week). at 3 bucks a month each, i can handle that. i'm not going hungry off 10 bones or so...

besides, i don't buy ANYTHING to "make a statement". i find that about as dumb as buying a book i don't like.

by **Keb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:37 pm

Fine then, be rich

Although you will have to explain this sensibilities of indie creators thing to me.

by **chap22** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:51 pm

Keb wrote:Fine then, be rich

Although you will have to explain this sensibilities of indie creators thing to me.

i obviously don't "get" most of the stuff that indie creators think is cool. and on the off-chance tat i do, with something like Criminal, i don't care to read that stuff in comic form. comics for me as a medium are for bigger than life stuff, stuff that you can't realistically budget on TV...it may be simplistic, but i really do read comics solely for men flying, shooting lasers out of their eyes, and blowing lots and lots of shit up. i enjoy the character stuff too, else i wouldn't keep coming back for 30+ years, but i can read real books for character stuff. i need that particular mix from my comics. the sole exception to that formula has really been Fables and a couple Crossgen books, and even they read like superhero books.

i don't read comics to get stuff like Love & Rockets, or PVP, or any of the snarky or touchy-feely stuff in-between, i'm not "edgy" or twisted enough to give two shits about anything Garth Ennis writes, i'm not British or cynical enough to read much Warren Ellis, and i'm nowhere near emo enough or dark enough to care for most of the Vertigo line.

i just don't "get" those sensibilities. i LOVE superheroes.

by **Keb** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:06 pm

chap22 wrote:i obviously don't "get" most of the stuff that indie creators think is cool. and on the off-chance tat i do, with something like Criminal, i don't care to read that stuff in comic form. comics for me as a medium are for bigger than life stuff, stuff that you can't realistically budget on TV...it may be simplistic, but i really do read comics solely for men flying, shooting lasers out of their eyes, and blowing lots and lots of shit up. i enjoy the character stuff too, else i wouldn't keep coming back for 30+ years, but i can read real books for character stuff. i need that particular mix from my comics. the sole exception to that formula has really been Fables and a couple Crossgen books, and even they read like superhero books.

i don't read comics to get stuff like Love & Rockets, or PVP, or any of the snarky or touchy-feely stuff in-between, i'm not "edgy" or twisted enough to give two shits about anything Garth Ennis writes, i'm not British or cynical enough to read much Warren Ellis, and i'm nowhere near emo enough or dark enough to care for most of the Vertigo line.

i just don't "get" those sensibilities. i LOVE superheroes.

Well then I'll avoid you for the duration of my stay here at the Outhouse. I don't like superheroes and I think it's what's really holding comics as a medium down. The fact that when people talk about comics as a form of literature they call it a "graphic novel" I get upset.

Now, I'm not a hater of heroes. I like the superhero when written to be complex enough to analyze, to break down and to be able to put it together in some form or another that makes sense. DC had two really great superhero comics in the 80s, and Marvel had a couple too, and ever since then everyone's been trying to write their superheroes like that while adhering to the age-long drivel that has been defined as whatever the fuck it's being defined by.

But at the same time there's room for so much more. It's like what if every stage play ever written was a romance comedy, then we'd never get the other forms of comedy or the many forms of tragedy, and the theatre would suck ass. On the upside we wouldn't have musicals and I'd be more inclined to attend the theatre

Anyways, ramble ramble!

by **john lewis hawk** » Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:18 pm

I'm right in the middle. I enjoy superhero comics but think that the writers have a tendency to leave the interesting parts as only the characters being superheroes. Both at DC and Marvel, there's not many writers that are not good superhero writers but are not good storytellers in my opinion.

At the other end, non-superhero comics do a good job with character and story development in a traditional, non-superhero way but can give in to their own stereotypes.

I think what happens is that most superhero and non-superhero writers know who their audiences are and have no problem playing to them and not changing things and, unforunately for them, I fall into both categories.