Sunday, May 1, 2016 • Morning Edition • "The trash of the multiverse has gotta end up somewhere."

The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

Comics news, comic book reviews, feature articles about comics, interviews with comic creators, plus the greatest comic book and pop culture discussion in the Outhouse forums!


What Really Ticks Me Off About DC Comics These Days

Hey you! Reader! Want to be a part of the GREATEST COMIC BOOK AND GEEK COMMUNITY on the web?! Well, they're not accepting new members, but we'll take anyone here, so why not sign up for a free acount? It's fast and it's easy, like your mom! Sign up today! Membership spots are limited!*

*Membership spots not really limited!

User avatar

OneWhoIsAll

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby OneWhoIsAll » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:48 pm

The Old Doctor wrote:
They have weird ways of deciding the profit needed to keep a title or line afloat.


Yes, and they get extra profit from ads alone. One of the main reasons I think DC(And Marvel) got rid of the letters column to get a extra ad page. Cost cutting messure.

Not to mention that most of the creators don't have a glamous pay cheque in end, reason why writers and artist have mutiple projects in the works.

Hell I would be excited if I get a $25 000 profit on a mothly title that sales 30 000 issues(Not including Digital Sales) at $2.99 a issue. Plus what ever I get from ads renvue. and Minus Retail Fee, Shipping Cost, Printing Cost, and yeah paying the creators.
User avatar

Chessack

dINGO

Postby Chessack » Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:56 pm

Well one problem is, most of the "ads" they print are for their own stuff. I haven't counted in a while but last year when I checked JL, out of 11 pages of ads, 8 of the pages were either for other DC comics, or else for other WB properties. Only 3 pages came from non-WB sources. If that's so, then they ain't making a lot of money from ads.

Additionally, they charge for ad space based on the number of eyes anticipated to see the advertisement. In the old days, that numbered in the millions of pairs. Today, it numbers in the 10s of thousands at most. So advertisers aren't going to pay them all that much.

Overall, I doubt DC and Marvel make very much on ads. That's why they charge $3.99 to us. We have to pay for all the costs that advertising no longer covers.
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:06 pm

KnightofOwls wrote:


I think the Mendoza line for DC is more like 20K. The Titles that are canceled making 30-25K are more likely doing so to get rebooted (Like the umpteen reboots for the Nu-52 JL International/America/United) instead of getting shelved.
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:10 pm

KnightofOwls wrote:
Yes, and they get extra profit from ads alone. One of the main reasons I think DC(And Marvel) got rid of the letters column to get a extra ad page. Cost cutting messure.

Not to mention that most of the creators don't have a glamous pay cheque in end, reason why writers and artist have mutiple projects in the works.

Hell I would be excited if I get a $25 000 profit on a mothly title that sales 30 000 issues(Not including Digital Sales) at $2.99 a issue. Plus what ever I get from ads renvue. and Minus Retail Fee, Shipping Cost, Printing Cost, and yeah paying the creators.



You would, but Time Warner stock holders wouldn't.

A Dangerous Vice

Mad Hatter

Postby A Dangerous Vice » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:14 pm

You could always try that infamous Internet Van that packaged goods tend to fall off. :wink: :-D 8)
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:22 pm

Chessack wrote:
Well, DC gets to make that decision. They actually cancel at 20,000, not 30. Whether the 20,000 mark indicates "no longer in the black" or just indicates they no longer want to publish it, there is no way to tell. Clearly at some point they'd have to stop due to losing money on the deal. Maybe 20k is it.

I don't have a problem with them canceling lines that are not profitable, and if the HC Archives didn't make them money, then OK. But there's no good reason why they couldn't put these stories out digitally. Superman just had a 75th anniversary. Wouldn't this be a great time to put out all the old original Action Comics, digitally?

We know DC is not averse to doing this in principle, because they've put out the old 1980s MW/GP Teen Titans (I'm busy reading them). They've put out Perez WW. And so forth. We know it's doable because they have done some very old original Action Comics. So why not do them all? It costs almost nothing, just the digitization price, which can't be very much given that they already have the technology and put out 52+ digital comics a month anyway. Marvel is able to do it with their Silver Age stuff... so why not DC? Or are we going to try to argue now that Marvel does this even though they lose money on it?


I've always wondered about why the NTT never got seriously collected until now, My best guess had to to with possibly royalties that would be owed to Wolfman and Perez.
User avatar

Juan Cena

DANG!

Postby Juan Cena » Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:33 pm

Chessack wrote:
I don't believe there was ever a formal announcement that the line was canceled. They just stopped producing them and a long time went by... so now we assume it's done.



Well, they're not redundant.

As for whether the line made or lost money, only DC knows. I don't agree that something stopping always indicates a loss of money from the product. When the game City of Heroes was canceled, it was still making money for Paragon Studios and NCSoft. Not tons of money, but it was well more than paying for its own existence. NCSoft decided to cancel it anyway. And after NCSoft decided they no longer wanted to run it, Paragon went to them and offered to buy it back from them, but NC said no. So clearly just "making money" is not the only reason why things get canceled.

Now was that happening with Archives? Again, only DC knows. But them stopping doing something doesn't automatically mean it wasn't making money.



Again, there's a difference between "making money" and "not making enough money."

The latter suggests the money a product makes does not justify the time, money, and effort into producing it.

I don't know the City of Heroes situation, but one could assume that Paragon's offer wasn't high enough for NCSoft.
User avatar

Chessack

dINGO

Postby Chessack » Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:17 pm

Juan Cena wrote:I don't know the City of Heroes situation, but one could assume that Paragon's offer wasn't high enough for NCSoft.


High enough for what? They are pulling the plug on it. Once they do that, it's worth $0. How is it worth MORE to them to keep the product essentially "in the attic" than to sell it for whatever Paragon offered?

The point of this is that companies don't always do what maximizes immediate profit. Often they do things that DESTROY profit but that they think are good moves at the time. That's why so many businesses fail, get mergered, etc.
User avatar

achilles

Fagorstorm

Postby achilles » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:28 pm

Chessack wrote:
High enough for what? They are pulling the plug on it. Once they do that, it's worth $0. How is it worth MORE to them to keep the product essentially "in the attic" than to sell it for whatever Paragon offered?

The point of this is that companies don't always do what maximizes immediate profit. Often they do things that DESTROY profit but that they think are good moves at the time. That's why so many businesses fail, get mergered, etc.


True enough. And DC isn't really supposed to be a profit center for Time Warner, just a holding company for properties to be used in other media, and for merchandising purposes.

In other words, TW probably doesn't give two shits whether DC makes a little money, or barely any money at all. I suspect there must have been a management change at WB for them to demand that DC start doing better, leading to Didio's retarded reboot.

TW is probably looking at all that sweet money Disney is making off Marvel, and putting the screws to WB, which in turn puts them on DC. Problem is none of them has a clue as to how to put together decent product.
User avatar

TimH

dINGO

Postby TimH » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:29 pm

KnightofOwls wrote:Chuck Dixon / Gail Simons's Birds of Prey and Secert Six definitly needs a digital realese since people keep asking for them.

I wouldn't mind getting the old comics in digital form if hard copies are a hassle for them to repint.


Some of Chuck Dixon's BOP is available off Comixology. I read the Barbara / Nightwing date issue (#8?) digitally for $1.99 because the back issue markets at $70 thereabouts. The Dixon BOP one-shots and kick-off miniseries are available too.

Additionally, all of Gail's BOP have been collected--both on comixology and in print (still available, I believe--at least "Sensei and Student" never seems to go out of print).
User avatar

TimH

dINGO

Postby TimH » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:36 pm

Chessack wrote:The point of this is that companies don't always do what maximizes immediate profit. Often they do things that DESTROY profit but that they think are good moves at the time. That's why so many businesses fail, get mergered, etc.


NCSoft... by coincidence, this weekend I was listening to a 1988 interview with Richard Garriott ("Lord British", who created the Ultima series back in the 1980s). He and his brother Robert Garriott in the early 2000s joined NCSoft to produce Tabula Rasa, which ended up as a fiasco, and Garriott successfully sued NCSoft for wrongful termination and received $28 million. At one point, during the project's struggles, the Garriott brothers got into a shouting match with each other over a pencil.
User avatar

Chessack

dINGO

Postby Chessack » Mon Jun 16, 2014 8:58 pm

Heheh.

The point is, it is specious to say "If the company isn't doing X, it means that X wasn't making them any money." Companies make foolhardy business decisions all the time. Google "Star Wars Galaxies NGE" for example. Or consider the flop that is DCU Online. If these companies had the business sense supposedly being attributed to them, wherein they always do things that maximize profits and always stop doing things that lose them money, such debacles would not happen. Companies get it wrong lots of times.

And remember this is DC we're talking about... a company that seems to make an art form out of getting it wrong.
User avatar

Rob Thompson

FROGMAN

Postby Rob Thompson » Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:33 am

Chessack wrote:And remember this is DC we're talking about... a company that seems to make an art form out of upsetting fans who feel entitled to a particular approach/outcome.

Fixed. :lol:
User avatar

The Beast

Swedish Pinata of Death

Postby The Beast » Tue Jun 17, 2014 8:52 am

This is the dawning of the Age of Entitlement. The Age of Entitlement. Entitlement. Entitlement.

A Dangerous Vice

Mad Hatter

Postby A Dangerous Vice » Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:05 pm

Rob Thompson wrote:Fixed. :lol:


Too true! :lol:

leave a comment with facebook


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: FaceBook [Linkcheck], Google [Bot], MSNbot Media and 78 guests