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What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

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Keb
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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Keb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:08 pm

Herald, there's just too much to say and I know you're not even going to bother to be open about it so have it your way Burger King.

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Herald » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:16 pm

Keb wrote:Herald, there's just too much to say and I know you're not even going to bother to be open about it so have it your way Burger King.


I'm no less open about it than the guy who claims that characters that don't represent the majority of the audience are "just not a successful idea to market."

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Keb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:22 pm

Herald wrote:
I'm no less open about it than the guy who claims that characters that don't represent the majority of the audience are "just not a successful idea to market."

Who is this guy and where did he make that claim?

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Herald » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:28 pm

Keb wrote:Who is this guy and where did he make that claim?


If you can't recognize your own words from a few posts ago staring back at you, you've got more problems besides being open. :smt102

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Keb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:32 pm

Scanning through this thread and I'm failing to see where I said anything about comics that don't represent the majority not selling.

In fact, I don't think I mentioned anything about representation at all. I did mention something about connection, but never did I mention anything about representation. They are different.

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Herald » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:37 pm

Then you need a better scanner. The very fact that you're trying to dance out of this instead of making your argument any further demonstrates that you've run out of steam. But hey, to coin a phrase: "Have It Your Way."

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Keb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:44 pm

Yes, because attempting intelligent debate with you in very exhausting. I have run out of steam. I mean, I could type out a well-reasoned response as to why you seem to assume by "connect" means "represent" and how you seem to be misappropriating words to make your argument stronger. I could then highlight how a connection to one audience can alienate another audience, and by doing so cause controversy, which is what the type of character would probably do. Then after that I could go finish off cooking this chicken broth, take my dog for a walk, read a little and have a well-deserved nap. I'd be much more productive to just skip to the last bit.

hugs <3

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Keb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 12:49 pm

But hey if anyone else besides Herald wants to talk about it, please feel free to let me know. 8)

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Herald » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:13 pm

Keb wrote:Yes, because attempting intelligent debate with you in very exhausting. I have run out of steam. I mean, I could type out a well-reasoned response as to why you seem to assume by "connect" means "represent" and how you seem to be misappropriating words to make your argument stronger.


By all means, do so.

Then I would point out to you that I made no such assumption, and you are trying to get out of the argument using semantics. (And poorly, at that.) Really, if you want out of the conversation, you should have stuck with saying so.

I could then highlight how a connection to one audience can alienate another audience, and by doing so cause controversy, which is what the type of character would probably do.


By all means, do so.

Then I would point out to you that, again, DC has had black characters before, without alienating others. DC has had/CURRENTLY HAS Hispanic characters before without alienating people because of their color. Some people actually like Nu Beetle and Nu Vibe! :shock:

And, even more to the point, DC has had Middle Eastern characters before -- again, I have plans! :D -- and lo and behold, DC hasn't closed down due to lack of sales from anyone's "alienation".

Again, you would have this idea shut down without even trying it, just because you're afraid of what MIGHT happen. That's patently ridiculous. If an Arabic/Middle Eastern female character is handled right, she can be accepted, just as so many other non-white or non-straight characters have in the past and currently.

Then after that I could go finish off cooking this chicken broth, take my dog for a walk, read a little and have a well-deserved nap. I'd be much more productive to just skip to the last bit.

hugs <3


And if you feel that way, then by all means, do so.

After all, your argument was ultimately nothing more than parroting "It'll never work!" over and over again, even though -- as I mentioned -- non-white characters HAVE been successful in the past. You would certainly be more productive taking a nap than continuing to make that already-disproven claim. :P
Last edited by Herald on Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Keb » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:27 pm

But all the characters you listed are males.

Also, you seem to gloss over the fact that none of those characters sell particularly high numbers. Nor do they generate a lot of critical buzz.

And on top of that, how many female racial minority comic book characters exist in the entire industry. How many of those female racial minority comic book headline their own books? And of those books, how many move big units every month?

Dude, seriously, it's really not worth my time or yours.

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Herald » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:27 pm

Keb wrote:But hey if anyone else besides Herald wants to talk about it, please feel free to let me know. 8)


Translation: "But hey, if anyone who will pliantly agree with me instead of strongly arguing against me wants to talk about it, please feel free to let me know."

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Herald » Mon Apr 08, 2013 1:50 pm

Keb wrote:But all the characters you listed are males.


They're still not WHITE males, like the majority of the audience. And, according to you, that difference alone means they should have never been given the chance to succeed.

Nice attempt to move the goalposts, though!

Also, you seem to gloss over the fact that none of those characters sell particularly high numbers. Nor do they generate a lot of critical buzz.


Wrong again!

Green Lantern: Mosaic (starring the aforementioned John Stewart) had plenty of "critical buzz" for its Vertigo-esque style, and it had the sales to continue on. It was only cancelled because DC Editorial hated it.

And on top of that, how many female racial minority comic book characters exist in the entire industry.


More than YOU think there are, apparently, given that you're asking this question... :?

How many of those female racial minority comic book headline their own books? And of those books, how many move big units every month?


Like I keep explaining to you, you don't know how they'll do until the company TRIES giving them books to headline. Sure, most female characters don't have their own books; what's your point?? The fact remains that this is not a failure on THEIR part, since they don't decide who gets a book!

And, like I also keep explaining to you, when I mention trying giving them a book, I mean doing a GOOD job with the characters, i.e. NOT handing Katana (Nu or otherwise) to the increasingly addled Ann Nocenti, whose very name and ugly rep from her Green Arrow and Catwoman runs turned away many potential readers from the start. :roll:

Dude, seriously, it's really not worth my time or yours.


ALL of the conversations on these message boards are ultimately "dust in the wind". And yet, we spend time coming around and participating on them, anyway.

"We're all mad here."

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Draco x » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:26 pm

Grayson wrote:
I'm pretty sure that Hal Jordan was dead most of the time that Jade would have been in a position to have any interaction with him and then she died shortly after he returned. Plus, Jade was more interested in dating and then cheating on Kyle Rayner while he was saving the universe and all.


But wasn't Jade around for a good part of the 90s before Hal became Parallax? I do remember seeing her in Reign Of The Supermen briefly before Hal left Earth and came back, so they would have known each other before that due Hal and her father Alan being associates.

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Draco x » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:35 pm

Keb wrote:
Yes, when you strip away the complex characteristics that make a comic book hero who he or she is, you get just that. But what defines a universal example of humanity? The differences, the ability that humans have to exist within their own spaces and within other spaces while remaining individual is what makes any character readable. If you have a group of characters all searching for the same thing, then the things that differentiate them are those qualities: social, cultural, political, spiritual, etc. Essentially those qualities that are considered become strong contributing factors on how that person becomes a universal concept of humanity.

There's been a huge shift in literary thinking from the mid-20th century to now that has taken place on the individual reconciliation of the fragmented identity. When I say "fragmented", I mean the elements that make a character's struggle significant are in pieces and often the protagonist contends within his or herself to reconcile social, cultural, political, spiritual elements in his or her life. It works well in literature. It would probably work well for comics as well if comics were being held entirely in literary regards.

Unfortunately comics, mainstream comics especially, are still a business. They have to connect with a large group of people and sell high numbers of they are not successful. When they fail to connect with the large, target audience, then the company writes it off. It's just not a successful idea to market.


I see what you are saying in some ways and all but the same could be said about gay characters like Kevin Keller and Batwoman who currently have their own series at their respective companies or even Cassandra Cain who is half Asian who managed to have her own series for awhile but was cancelled due to the fact that Didio and co are morons with some prejudice against the character. Is there a chance people might not be interested in a female GL Arabic character who was the main focus of the book? Probably but the same could be said about Baz himself as a male GL Arabic character as there are almost no comic books that have them as the main focus.

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Re: What If The New Green Lantern Was Female

Postby Draco x » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:39 pm

Keb wrote:Yes, because attempting intelligent debate with you in very exhausting. I have run out of steam. I mean, I could type out a well-reasoned response as to why you seem to assume by "connect" means "represent" and how you seem to be misappropriating words to make your argument stronger. I could then highlight how a connection to one audience can alienate another audience, and by doing so cause controversy, which is what the type of character would probably do. Then after that I could go finish off cooking this chicken broth, take my dog for a walk, read a little and have a well-deserved nap. I'd be much more productive to just skip to the last bit.

hugs <3


Not to contradict you and all but why would you assume that a hypothetical female character I suggested alienate said audience or cause controversy necessarily? I do agree that there might some critics but like I said you can't please everybody. I don't necessarily see a lot of Arab groups wanting to burn or firebomb DC Comics for making a female GL Arabic character due to the idea it might be offensive.

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