The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[Benderbrau]

Killing people for shock value is a GOOD THING. Which writer DOESN'T kill people? How many people died in Lost finale's so far? Season 1, yes, season 2, no, season 3 yes, season 4 yes, season 5 yes. It happens all the time.

He didn't kill Kitty. He didn't kill any female on Angel, he didn't kill anyone in Runaways.

He doesn't always kill people, he just sometimes does, but MOST dramas have deaths in them. So did 24 for numerous seasons, so does the Wire, so many things APART FROM comics klil people at the end of a series/arc.

Dude, you need to let this argument over Kitty go. If he planned on ever saving Kitty he could have done in like two pages worth. Just because another writer has come along later to reverse Whedon's decision isn't a point in his favor.

[Doc Jon]

uggh Nolan is a not a good action director either. I am not sure why TDK made so much money but it was not because of the action. You are right Whedon is a better action director than him.

All I am saying though is that you can have action movies with compelling action that rock like Iron Man, Star Trek, Spider-man 2 which we should get in an Avengers movie. I am not convinced Whedon can do that, nevermind what he might bring to the table storywise which I do not have much confidence in anymore either.

I can see your trepidation, but I'm willing to give Whedon a shot.

Favreau was a shot that no one would know would work. He had never done an action movie to that point.

Abrams is really not that different from Whedon. They both came from tv action shows with strong female leads. The difference is Abrams has gotten bigger movies like MI:3 to this point. While I liked Trek, I didn't think it was great.

And Raimi for Spidey 2 was good, but the action in the Spidey movies was not their strong suit for me.

Whedon has had a ton of experience with action with Serenity, Buffy and Angel. He has experience with ensemble casts. He loves comics. And he has shown the ability to be true to a franchise.

So again, I can understand why people might be skeptical. All I can say it there are a lot of upsides with Whedon.

[Rockman]

Killing people for shock value is a GOOD THING. Which writer DOESN'T kill people? How many people died in Lost finale's so far? Season 1, yes, season 2, no, season 3 yes, season 4 yes, season 5 yes. It happens all the time.

He didn't kill Kitty. He didn't kill any female on Angel, he didn't kill anyone in Runaways.

He doesn't always kill people, he just sometimes does, but MOST dramas have deaths in them. So did 24 for numerous seasons, so does the Wire, so many things APART FROM comics klil people at the end of a series/arc.

Killing people for Shock value is crap and ruins rewatchability. I have no problem with people biting the bullet but let them go out like heroes. Loeb killed a bunch of people for shock value in Ultimatum it was a crap story.

[Strict31]

Look, all I know is that when people asked why he killed Anya he freely admitted that he did it purely for shock value. Not because it added anything at all to the story. After that I started to see it everywhere. Kitty died? Why? The X-Men could have gone and gotten her easily. Or the FF. Or Dr. Strange. He kills Wash in Serenity. Again why? After he dies all the crew run into the city and eventually hide in a bunker while River kicks the shit out of everything. Would it have impeded that outcome to have Wash there? No. It's shitty writing. And yes I do beleive directors influence the script and he'll some how manage to get this shit of his in the script because producers are stupid and the writers will be like some of the people here. They'll be all like "ooohh it's Joss Whedon, we love you Joss Whedon" and they'll let him do whatever the fuck he wants with the script. And he'll fuck it up with annoying pop culture references and pointless deaths.

The bitch is coming back. What the fuck are you talking about? We never even saw kitty actually die, but nevermind that X-Men die and come back all the time.

And what, was Anya you favorite character or something? Well Xander's eye was my favorite character. Fuck Whedon for killing Xander's eye. That eye had a lot of potential, and he killed it for goddamn shock value. That dick.

He kills characters? A character could die in a story? Why, who has heard of such nonsense? I bet Shakespeare never killed any characters off.

[Dooz]

He hasn't really proven himself with directing action, I wish they would get someone who has a proven track record for their keystone film.

Favs had Zanthura, but you could see his lack of confidence when dealing with action scenes in IM (mostly when Tony breaks out of the terrorist camp and the end fight, both looked pretty tv quality), but it looks like he's had a pretty steep learning curve for IM2.

Serenity looked like a better-than-average tv episode, I'm hoping he can pull some more dynamic action directing out by the time Avengers shoots.

[Jubilee]

Dude, you need to let this argument over Kitty go. If he planned on ever saving Kitty he could have done in like two pages worth. Just because another writer has come along later to reverse Whedon's decision isn't a point in his favor.

He purposely had her survive. He purposely left her alive, he knew as well as everyone else who reads comics, you don't leave a name character alive somewhere without her being bought back eventually.

[Rockman]

I can see your trepidation, but I'm willing to give Whedon a shot.

Favreau was a shot that no one would know would work. He had never done an action movie to that point.

Abrams is really not that different from Whedon. They both came from tv action shows with strong female leads. The difference is Abrams has gotten bigger movies like MI:3 to this point. While I liked Trek, I didn't think it was great.

And Raimi for Spidey 2 was good, but the action in the Spidey movies was not their strong suit for me.

Whedon has had a ton of experience with action with Serenity, Buffy and Angel. He has experience with ensemble casts. He loves comics. And he has shown the ability to be true to a franchise.



So again, I can understand why people might be skeptical. All I can say it there are a lot of upsides with Whedon.

Just gotta say the action for Spidey 2 was some of the most compelling superhero action I have ever seen. Just my opinion but I love rewatching those scenes.

And as I said in my very first post, Whedon is okay, but I want to see incredible action scenes for Avengers and I am not sure he can deliver.

I mentioned Abrams because he took 2 dead franchises and made a boatload of money off of them, lens flare or no the action in those movies was great.

[Benderbrau]

The bitch is coming back. What the fuck are you talking about? We never even saw kitty actually die, but nevermind that X-Men die and come back all the time.

And what, was Anya you favorite character or something? Well Xander's eye was my favorite character. Fuck Whedon for killing Xander's eye. That eye had a lot of potential, and he killed it for goddamn shock value. That dick.

He kills characters? A character could die in a story? Why, who has heard of such nonsense? I bet Shakespeare never killed any characters off.

But he does it at nearly the exact same time in ever damn story.
It's

fucking

annoying.

[Strict31]

Exactly, apart from Angel or Astonishing I've not even liked his work that much. But so much stuff here is off base.

I wasn't a big fan of Astonishing. Or Angel. Got into Buffy for a little while, but I'm neither here nor there on it. And I hated Dollhouse.

And I hate agreeing with a british chick, but I just don't see the basis for the complaints here.

[Benderbrau]

He purposely had her survive. He purposely left her alive, he knew as well as everyone else who reads comics, you don't leave a name character alive somewhere without her being bought back eventually.

Face facts kid. The only reason he didn't chop her in half with an axe like Anya was because Marvel wouldn't let him.

[Strict31]

But he does it at nearly the exact same time in ever damn story.
It's

fucking

annoying.

No

He

Doesn't.

[Rockman]

The bitch is coming back. What the fuck are you talking about? We never even saw kitty actually die, but nevermind that X-Men die and come back all the time.

And what, was Anya you favorite character or something? Well Xander's eye was my favorite character. Fuck Whedon for killing Xander's eye. That eye had a lot of potential, and he killed it for goddamn shock value. That dick.

He kills characters? A character could die in a story? Why, who has heard of such nonsense? I bet Shakespeare never killed any characters off.

The problem Strict is repetition, If you feel the trope is mistaken then there ya go, agree to disagree.

The issue with death is not the presence of it, though I think it would feel out of place in an Avengers film. The issue is that the death has merit to the story and honors the character, did the pilots death in Serenity honor the character? No he went out like a punk. Did we even get to see the shepard die? nope, but at least it helped to propell the story.

[Benderbrau]

No

He

Doesn't.

You are becoming almost as predictable as Whedon.

[Doc Jon]

He hasn't really proven himself with directing action, I wish they would get someone who has a proven track record for their keystone film.

Favs had Zanthura, but you could see his lack of confidence when dealing with action scenes in IM (mostly when Tony breaks out of the terrorist camp and the end fight, both looked pretty tv quality), but it looks like he's had a pretty steep learning curve for IM2.

Let me get this straight.

Whedon had Buffy and Angel and he hasn't proven himself directing action.

But Favreau had Zathura?

That's your argument? That's what you got?

[Rockman]

Let me get this straight.

Whedon had Buffy and Angel and he hasn't proven himself directing action.

But Favreau had Zathura?

That's your argument? That's what you got?

Zathura sucked

Buffy and Angels action was very much ingrained in tv quality, it was not mindblowing in the very least.