The Outhouse - The Greatest Comic Book Forum

[ReturnoftheMack]

They are taking her into custody against her will. We aren't locking potential terrorists up, we're the US of A, greatest country in the world, right? Everyone can trust Uncle Sam.

Hope is a free person with the right to do what she wants. She did nothing wrong. There is no valid reason to take her into custody. If you start saying that the potential that something bad might happen warrants taking away the freedom of innocents, you might as well lock up every hero in the Marvel Universe because who knows what Supervillain might blow up a town to get at them.

If Galactus was coming to eat the earth, you don't think raiding the Baxter Building to take the Ultimate Nullifier is justified? Or if Thanos was one gem away from the Infinity Gauntlet and it was in someone else's hands that the Avengers shouldn't get that person?

These are extenuating circumstances.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

If Galactus was coming to eat the earth, you don't think raiding the Baxter Building to take the Ultimate Nullifier is justified? Or if Thanos was one gem away from the Infinity Gauntlet and it was in someone else's hands that the Avengers shouldn't get that person?

These are extenuating circumstances.

Show up and warn that person? Sure. Show up and say "You're coming with us, whether you like it or not, and nevermind the fact that you have a family and a formidable team of superheroes here to protect you as it is. You need to come with us because we say so, and if anyone tries to stop us, we have an army waiting to take you into custody against your will, and one hairy canadian to try to stab you to death." No.

The Avengers should have gone to Utopia, said "We're here to help, can we join you," and then tried to persuade Scott and/or hope that going to the moon was the better option. Of course, we wouldn't have a story then, but that's how it should have been handled. What they did instead was an act of agression.

[Dragavon]

Really??? I know the world has been twisted when someone actually tries to make a connection between real world events and a stupid comic "event". Come up for air, man.

This I have to disagree with. Marvel Comic's entire philisophy is they try to be as true to real life as they can be. Despite the gods and aliens and robots, the concept is realistic people trying to be heroes.

[ReturnoftheMack]

Show up and warn that person? Sure. Show up and say "You're coming with us, whether you like it or not, and nevermind the fact that you have a family and a formidable team of superheroes here to protect you as it is. You need to come with us because we say so, and if anyone tries to stop us, we have an army waiting to take you into custody against your will, and one hairy canadian to try to stab you to death." No.

The Avengers should have gone to Utopia, said "We're here to help, can we join you," and then tried to persuade Scott and/or hope that going to the moon was the better option. Of course, we wouldn't have a story then, but that's how it should have been handled. What they did instead was an act of agression.

But this isn't about protecting Hope. It's about protecting the world. They can't just warn Hope. They have to be proactive. Protecting Hope isn't the main goal.

Cap didn't even need to talk to Scott, but still tried. Scott had shown his true colors during both Children's Crusade (when he attacked the Avengers without provocation) and Schism. Why would he be any different this time around?

[Amoebas]

And he has Cable who told him about the Avengers (which came true).

It came true because Scott made it come true.

[Amoebas]

They are taking her into custody against her will.

If true, then Scott's plan was to 'take her into custody against her will". Which happened. Emma even told Hope she wasn't going anywhere and then proceeded to threaten the other muties what would happen if she wasn't held there.

Hope is a free person with the right to do what she wants. She did nothing wrong. There is no valid reason to take her into custody. If you start saying that the potential that something bad might happen warrants taking away the freedom of innocents, you might as well lock up every hero in the Marvel Universe because who knows what Supervillain might blow up a town to get at them.

The simplistic point of why the X-Men came into existence was to find people whose only crime was being a mutant. "Come with us. If you don't, the 'humans' will get you". Whether by coercion or force - it's still scummy.

[MoneyMelon]

I'm with the side that doesn't have Magneto or a militant camp based off the shore of San Francisco.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

I'm with the side that doesn't have Magneto or a militant camp based off the shore of San Francisco.

What's your issue with lesbians?

[MoneyMelon]

What's your issue with lesbians?

They have no sense of humor.

[IvCNuB4]

They snatch up all the good Craftsmen tools before anyone else can buy them

[ElijahSnowFan]

2. We're hanging out together on a comic book message board, many of us for five to ten years now, where day after day, week after week, year after year, we talk and argue about comics with each other, and argue about music and tv and politics and quantum physics, all within the framework of a comic book message board. We react to rules and mawding on the site with the same indignity one reacts to police brutality or the patriot act in real life. People frequently storm off the site in rage and butthurt over petty insults and mockery. They call each other cuntrags and thundercunts and pedophiles and buddy bears. We have trolls that show up at the site hundred of times over the course of years to post slashfic raps about the posters. People pretend to be cats and robots and monkeys and fans of my little pony. We memorize shit that happened eight years ago on forums that don't even exist anymore any make references to it that maybe 50 people get, today, almost a decade later. We buy $200 statues of Jean Gray against the wishes of our wives. Am I really crossing a line here by drawing a metaphor between a comic book story and real life? We're in the asylum, man!

Yeah, well, until somebody proves to me that Grant Morrison didn't write "Watchmen," then you just go screw yourself, buddy.

[nattygreene]

Justifying the Avengers, who are the clear agressors here, and the ones acting against core American principles like liberty, seems strange to me. Wanting to imprison Hope because of something that's not her fault seems like the sort of thing I would think people would universally disagree with, but here you all are, wholeheartedly supporting it. Because it's for the "greater good." So is locking up "suspected" terrorists and torturing them, or locking the Japanese up in internment camps during World War 2. It's for the public safety, after all.

When put that way, it does smell an awful lot like THE Minority Report. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Minority_Report

[PDH]

Really??? I know the world has been twisted when someone actually tries to make a connection between real world events and a stupid comic "event". Come up for air, man.

I don't think it's unreasonable for Jude to make an analogy to a real world event.

It might even be a good analogy if Japanese people sometimes turned into fiery bird goddesses and ate entire planets, killing billions of people.

[S.F. Jude Terror]

I don't think it's unreasonable for Jude to make an analogy to a real world event.

It might even be a good analogy if Japanese people sometimes turned into fiery bird goddesses and ate entire planets, killing billions of people.

With the death toll and massive potential for destruction of the Navy at Pearl Harbor, I think it is reasonable to say that a sneak attack by Japanese on American soil could be very damaging and cost a lot of life. Perhaps not in the 4 billion lives range, but you yourself said in another thread that the ratio for life loss for simply murdering one person was a lot lower than 4 billion. We're not even talking about killing Japanese Americans, just holding them against their will for the duration of the war. Surely that qualifies under the same principles.

[Log-Man]

I'm really impressed that this topic is getting so much debate going. The poll is nearly 50/50 which I never expected. I'll hand it to Marvel, they actually succeeded in creating a heroes vs heroes war without a blatantly wrong side this time.

Or so it seems.