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WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Draco x » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:02 pm

Zechs wrote:Herald are you serious dissing Robinson's Starman? Come on now. And with that particular issue it was minor heroes who got fed to the new Mist (a character he later on killed as well). Nobody was using these characters at the time and honestly Blue Devil needed to die to get rid of that stupid extreme 90s getup he had. :P

The thing is though Cry for Justice was an editorial mess. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Don't go fingering Robinson just because he was the one who had to write it.


So Didio and company were the ones who told Robinson to kill of Roy's infant daughter, turn Ollie to Frank Castle with a bow and arrow and have a good villain like Prometheus die one of the crappiest deaths ever in comicdom? I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby doombug » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:06 pm

Seriously, it's not like there was a major love loss for any of those characters at the time.

Heck, Blue Devil had his best writing in like 20 years thanks to Willingham during Shadowpact. :lol:
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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Herald » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:20 pm

Zechs wrote:Herald are you serious dissing Robinson's Starman?


YES.
No work is beyond reproach, no matter how beloved.

There are people who don't like Alan Moore's work. Go puzzle THAT one out for awhile. :P

And with that particular issue it was minor heroes who got fed to the new Mist


The X-Men were once "minor heroes", too.

You never know how MAJOR "minor heroes" can become, and you never will if you casually destroy them before they ever get the chance to become major.

(a character he later on killed as well).


And he did so while...

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
commenting on how useless it was to kill those characters in the first place BECAUSE they were "minor". So, if the whole thing was pointless:

1. He shouldn't have bothered killing them, then!

2. Since he DID kill them, why not fix what he shouldn't have broken, and bring them back??


Nobody was using these characters at the time


Another lame excuse. Just because a character isn't being used at the time doesn't mean they should be taken off the shelf and torn to pieces. That renders the character unusable without being forced to conjure up some (probably questionable at best) resurrection story first. This makes working with the character much harder; no wonder writers usually come up with a new version instead.

and honestly Blue Devil needed to die to get rid of that stupid extreme 90s getup he had. :P


1. Killing him didn't get rid of the "stupid extreme 90s getup"; he still had it when he was resurrected. :P

2. If having a "stupid extreme 90s getup" means a character should die, why is ANYONE in this idiotic "New 52" outside of Power Girl still breathing?? And that includes Jimbo's own "Earth 2" people! Even HE said he can't stand Jay's crappy new costume! :P :P

The thing is though Cry for Justice was an editorial mess. You know it. I know it. We all know it. Don't go fingering Robinson just because he was the one who had to write it.


Yet another lame excuse. Jimbo ALWAYS had the option to say "No." Nobody was pointing a gun to his head.

He sure managed to scream out that word when DC Editorial wanted him to destroy all the fictional cities in that very same miniseries. And let's face it; he only refused to do that because he would have had to obliterate HIS precious, precious Opal City along with Metropolis and Gotham!

AGAIN, it's funny how the rules radically change for some people when it's something THEY like getting shredded, not just someone else's stuff. :roll:

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Herald » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:29 pm

doombug wrote:I really get tired of your schtick and putting words in people's mouths.

This article written about and teasing the man's current work. He specifically talks about the negatives as much as the positives which you know, you'd figure would interest the guy who is so anti-dc. (Newsflash, I don't enjoy 80 percent of their content either)

He brings up that he doesn't like Jay's current costume, that Shade was almost cancelled at issue #8 and how things aren't exactly as smooth as they could be. It's all there if you read the actual piece.

I like Golden Age and absolutely love Starman, Robinson also did an amazing Captain America one shot a few years ago. I've even had the pleasure of interviewing the man last year.

I just don't your need to instead of talking about what is in the article to be like "OMG GUYS DIDN'T CRY FOR JUSTICE SUCK?!"


You talk about me not reading the article, but clearly, YOU didn't read all of MY post. Otherwise, you'd know that:

1. I took something he said straight from the article. :roll:

2. There was more to my comments than "OMG GUYS DIDN'T CRY FOR JUSTICE SUCK?!"

"Quid pro quo, Clarisse..."
Last edited by Herald on Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Draco x » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:29 pm

Herald wrote:
YES.
No work is beyond reproach, no matter how beloved.

There are people who don't like Alan Moore's work. Go puzzle THAT one out for awhile. :P



The X-Men were once "minor heroes", too.

You never know how MAJOR "minor heroes" can become, and you never will if you casually destroy them before they ever get the chance to become major.



And he did so while...

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
commenting on how useless it was to kill those characters in the first place BECAUSE they were "minor". So, if the whole thing was pointless:

1. He shouldn't have bothered killing them, then!

2. Since he DID kill them, why not fix what he shouldn't have broken, and bring them back??




Another lame excuse. Just because a character isn't being used at the time doesn't mean they should be taken off the shelf and torn to pieces. That renders the character unusable without being forced to conjure up some (probably questionable at best) resurrection story first. This makes working with the character much harder; no wonder writers usually come up with a new version instead.



1. Killing him didn't get rid of the "stupid extreme 90s getup"; he still had it when he was resurrected. :P

2. If having a "stupid extreme 90s getup" means a character should die, why is ANYONE in this idiotic "New 52" outside of Power Girl still breathing?? And that includes Jimbo's own "Earth 2" people! Even HE said he can't stand Jay's crappy new costume! :P :P



Yet another lame excuse. Jimbo ALWAYS had the option to say "No." Nobody was pointing a gun to his head.

He sure managed to scream out that word when DC Editorial wanted him to destroy all the fictional cities in that very same miniseries. And let's face it; he only refused to do that because he would have had to obliterate HIS precious, precious Opal City along with Metropolis and Gotham!

AGAIN, it's funny how the rules radically change for some people when it's something THEY like getting shredded, not just someone else's stuff. :roll:


I really wish they could bring back Lian somehow as she made Roy more interesting than the doofus he is being portrayed as by Lobdell.

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Zechs » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:34 pm

Herald wrote:
YES.
No work is beyond reproach, no matter how beloved.

There are people who don't like Alan Moore's work. Go puzzle THAT one out for awhile. :P



The X-Men were once "minor heroes", too.

You never know how MAJOR "minor heroes" can become, and you never will if you casually destroy them before they ever get the chance to become major.



And he did so while...

[Reveal] Spoiler: Click to Expand
commenting on how useless it was to kill those characters in the first place BECAUSE they were "minor". So, if the whole thing was pointless:

1. He shouldn't have bothered killing them, then!

2. Since he DID kill them, why not fix what he shouldn't have broken, and bring them back??




Another lame excuse. Just because a character isn't being used at the time doesn't mean they should be taken off the shelf and torn to pieces. That renders the character unusable without being forced to conjure up some (probably questionable at best) resurrection story first. This makes working with the character much harder; no wonder writers usually come up with a new version instead.



1. Killing him didn't get rid of the "stupid extreme 90s getup"; he still had it when he was resurrected. :P

2. If having a "stupid extreme 90s getup" means a character should die, why is ANYONE in this idiotic "New 52" outside of Power Girl still breathing?? And that includes Jimbo's own "Earth 2" people! Even HE said he can't stand Jay's crappy new costume! :P :P



Yet another lame excuse. Jimbo ALWAYS had the option to say "No." Nobody was pointing a gun to his head.

He sure managed to scream out that word when DC Editorial wanted him to destroy all the fictional cities in that very same miniseries. And let's face it; he only refused to do that because he would have had to obliterate HIS precious, precious Opal City along with Metropolis and Gotham!

AGAIN, it's funny how the rules radically change for some people when it's something THEY like getting shredded, not just someone else's stuff! :roll:



Dude you have to lay off the mocha of hate. It is not a healthy thing. Nobody was using those characters at that time period. Nobody. Heck most of them are D list heroes. That's their entire point. Nobody cares for the Crimson Fox alas. Or at that point Blue Devil as well. But this is also comics where life and death is but a writer away.

All it takes is a writer to care. Mark Waid hated the concept of the Rogues and butchered them all in Underworld Unleashed save Trickster and Abracadabra. Does that make him the monster you say he is?

Yes I know he also brought them back to life later on in his Flash run. Still, same point and periods. Comics were different back then. Characters just felt worn out by the extremity of the situation. Not like this era at all.

This era is completely different how they view characters. Here they view them on the simplicity of will their death cause enough reaction to make sales? Gone are the times of deaths being build-up (save the rare case of Damian Wayne).

DC Legacy of heroes was a fruitful thing in the 90s. That's why I loved DC in that era. It was the time of Wally, Kyle, Tim, and Cassandra. I had hopes there be new characters to take their places and new ideas done to these characters so they evolve. Some did to their natural conclusion (Wally and Tim) some did not (Cassandra and Kyle).

Regardless, it's two different eras of DC. You're acting like it's been business as usual.
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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Zechs » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:36 pm

draco x wrote:
So Didio and company were the ones who told Robinson to kill of Roy's infant daughter, turn Ollie to Frank Castle with a bow and arrow and have a good villain like Prometheus die one of the crappiest deaths ever in comicdom? I wouldn't be surprised if this was the case.


That wasn't the first time Ollie killed someone in cold blood. I keep hating the fact people forget he's killed people in his own ongoing andHal Jordan too before he got better.
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I especially like and admire Zechs. He's everything I wish I could be!

Dragavon wrote:Zechs... is...

Zechs...is...

I can't say it. It's too horrible. Zechs...is...not...wrong...

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby IvCNuB4 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:53 pm

Herald wrote:How nice for the person who wrote it. I'm sure the act of writing the article inspires a feeling of accomplishment in itself..


The true accomplishment comes from seeing our comic bretheren engaging in lively and thought-provoking exchanges of ideas and the heart-felt emotional support they give each other.
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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Herald » Sat Mar 30, 2013 3:55 pm

Zechs wrote:Dude you have to lay off the mocha of hate. It is not a healthy thing.


...says the guy who continually posts pics and comments about Steph and Cass being exiled from DC's books...

Nobody was using those characters at that time period. Nobody.


Nobody's using Cass and Steph right now.
Are you saying that you'd like to see them brought back just long enough to be massacred??

Heck most of them are D list heroes. That's their entire point.


Many would argue the same about Cass and especially Steph...

Nobody cares for the Crimson Fox alas. Or at that point Blue Devil as well.


Now, why did you have to use the qualifier "at that point", hmm?? Because (to you) THAT character got some GOOD exposure recently, in which he did NOT just show up to get massacred, just to prop up some writer's lame would-be supervillain.

ANY character can shine, given good writing.
Never forget that.

But this is also comics where life and death is but a writer away.


Not now. Now, it's an incompetent DC Editorial away.
And that is a place far, FAR away for some characters...

All it takes is a writer to care.


Quite a few writers have cared about bringing back Cass and/or Steph.
Remind me: Has that care brought back Cass and/or Steph anytime recently??
What happened when Gail Simone cared, hmm??
What happened when whoever that Smallville writer is cared??

I know you worship Jimbo, but try not to let it blind you to the truth.
"You know it. I know it. We all know it", indeed.

Mark Waid hated the concept of the Rogues and butchered them all in Underworld Unleashed save Trickster and Abracadabra. Does that make him the monster you say he is?

Yes I know he also brought them back to life later on in his Flash run.


So you also know it was a bad example that you never should have brought up in the first place. :P

Still, same point and periods. Comics were different back then. Characters just felt worn out by the extremity of the situation. Not like this era at all.


None of those characters were "worn out". Indeed, if characters got "worn out", why are 70+-year-old fogeys BATMAN and SUPERMAN still popular??

The overall difference between now and then is that we have complete idiots running the show now.

This era is completely different how they view characters. Here they view them on the simplicity of will their death cause enough reaction to make sales?


That aspect hasn't really changed.
Just ask Superman.

DC Legacy of heroes was a fruitful thing in the 90s. That's why I loved DC in that era. It was the time of Wally, Kyle, Tim, and Cassandra.


Agreed.

Regardless, it's two different eras of DC. You're acting like it's been business as usual.


It's business as usual for Jimmy "I drag out characters to die!" Robinson.

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Zechs » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:30 pm

Yes, I have my own madness, but I keep it down. I keep it restricted. I don't go into every DC calling DC out for every negative story they've done in the past ten years. Instead I put my energies to where it is better put. Making sure these characters are not forgot. Something the current regime heads of DC want to bury these characters and scratch out the entire meaning of the word legacy.

Yes. Yes they were Herald. The 90s while good in some regards also wore certain characters down. Iron Man. Thor. Spider-Man. Green Arrow. Guy Gardner. I know there are more names, but those instantly pop into my head of top tier heroes. Lower? They were riddled with 90s concepts. Just look at Blue Devil in that cover you posted at DC's attempt to make him more "hip" for the youngsters. What Robinson did was a blessing and even then he did more for the character than probably anyone else could had at that time.

I mean again look at what Waid did to BD in Underworld Unleashed. Dude got a raw deal in that. Still, I enjoy the story for what it was as is BD and the others getting killed. It served a point. Hey Stephanie got killed as well it served a point as well. But there's a difference between Blue Devil's exit being well written and Stephanie's being not.

At the moment I know that the pair of characters are about as dead as can be. A fate truly worse fate than what happened to Blue Devil. A fate that Grant Morrison showed so well in Animal Man. Characters lost in limbo because the writers/editors just have no need for them. I just wish someone at DC whomever it is who has this grudge against legacies is removed.

I'd go into this more but I seriously don't want to waste a two hour or more what result in a meaningless debate. Nothing is gonna change your hatred for DC. Nothing. Not if Dan and the gang are all fired. Not if Dr. Light II is restored or given an ongoing by a good creator. Instead it'll be another and another face that'll you do battle with. Instead of fighting this white whale do what I do. Honor the characters and the memory. Show how stupid the current philosophy is. By attacking you're doing nothing short of what H.E.A.T. did and in you be held in the same regard as "Didio" himself. So be better than your enemy is what I'm getting at. Be more than a person who clings to hate. Embrace the good of what made you enjoy comics. Not the the sludge that coats it if you so think that it does now.
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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Herald » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:51 pm

Zechs wrote:Yes, I have my own madness, but I keep it down. I keep it restricted.


Riiiiiight... :roll:

Yes. Yes they were Herald. The 90s while good in some regards also wore certain characters down. Iron Man. Thor. Spider-Man. Green Arrow. Guy Gardner.


1. In your opinion.

2. With #1 said, I notice none of them were massacred due to your feeling that they were worn down. Interesting...

I know there are more names, but those instantly pop into my head of top tier heroes. Lower? They were riddled with 90s concepts.


So is the New 52...

Just look at Blue Devil in that cover you posted at DC's attempt to make him more "hip" for the youngsters. What Robinson did was a blessing and even then he did more for the character than probably anyone else could had at that time.


Some would argue the same for Steph's death...

I mean again look at what Waid did to BD in Underworld Unleashed. Dude got a raw deal in that.


And if making a deal with the Devil meant that a character should be killed off, so many fanboys wouldn't be screaming in anguish over Spider-Man -- sorry, "Spider-Pus" -- recently.

Still, I enjoy the story for what it was as is BD and the others getting killed. It served a point.


No, it served NO point. Again, even Jimbo himself pointed this out in that issue in which Mist II died.

Hey Stephanie got killed as well it served a point as well.


The only point that served was to get Batman alone again. And, as the survival of Nightwing, Robin, Cass, etc. demonstrated, getting Batman alone again didn't really require anyone to die.

But there's a difference between Blue Devil's exit being well written and Stephanie's being not.


There are people who would argue that Steph's exit was written well.
Would YOU agree??

Again, it's easy to dismiss the demise of a character YOU don't care about.
Funny how the rules change when it's a character you DO care about being killed...

At the moment I know that the pair of characters are about as dead as can be. A fate truly worse fate than what happened to Blue Devil. A fate that Grant Morrison showed so well in Animal Man. Characters lost in limbo because the writers/editors just have no need for them. I just wish someone at DC whomever it is who has this grudge against legacies is removed.


I'd argue that it's better for a character to be in limbo, where that character can be immediately brought back and put to good use, than dead, which -- as I mentioned -- requires some resurrection excuse just to make the character usable again.

I'd go into this more but I seriously don't want to waste a two hour or more what result in a meaningless debate.


All discussion on this board is ultimately meaningless.
"We're ALL mad here."

Nothing is gonna change your hatred for DC. Nothing. Not if Dan and the gang are all fired. Not if Dr. Light II is restored or given an ongoing by a good creator.


Let them try those, and you'll find out otherwise.

Instead it'll be another and another face that'll you do battle with. Instead of fighting this white whale do what I do. Honor the characters and the memory. Show how stupid the current philosophy is.


I do all that, thank you.
And frankly, many people consider THAT a "white whale".
ESPECIALLY Dan and the Gang themselves.

By attacking you're doing nothing short of what H.E.A.T. did


Maybe, maybe not.
The important part is: Did Hal Jordan come back??
Gee, lemme check...

and in you be held in the same regard as "Didio" himself.


That's utterly impossible.
I'm not running -- and ruining -- DC like he is.
Nobody goes to Newsarama's Facebook wall to denigrate me and my actions.
And unlike Dan, I actually know how to write. :P 8)

So be better than your enemy is what I'm getting at. Be more than a person who clings to hate. Embrace the good of what made you enjoy comics.


I am. But thanks for your concern.
Last edited by Herald on Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:00 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby S.F. Jude Terror » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:53 pm

Herald, when Zechs is trying to get you to see reason, you might have to admit you've gone off the deep end.
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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Herald » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:57 pm

S.F. Jude Terror wrote:The Complainer Is Always Wrong!


Fixed.

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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby bkthomson » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:02 pm

Herald wrote:
Fixed.

Stop it. Warning 1
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Re: WonderCon 2013: James Robinson Spotlight

Postby Herald » Sat Mar 30, 2013 5:06 pm

bkthomson wrote:Stop it. Warning 1


What rule did I violate?

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